HAFC FAQS

The following is a skeptical response to common questions I hear concerning HAFC as sold by Dennis Lee of Dutchman Enterprises:

How can you be sure it doesn't work? I can't prove something can never work – The burdon of proof should be on the claimant. I can show there do not appear to be any proper independently confirmed proof out there. Even though I offer $2000 and turning from leading critic to leading support, they have not been willing to show me real proof.
What about the covalizer? – couldn't that increase mileage? Theoretically, I suppose so. A product from another company (that I suspect is the same organic substance) gave my car no improvement. Credible sources have tested dozens of such products and found them all to be frauds.
Have their been any credible independent validations of HAFC? Dateline NBC had Dutchman's lead installer, Sammy install one on a model car they claim they had gotten high mileage on in the past – the car if anything got lower mileage.
But Dennis Lee has a patent for the HAFC. A patent does not mean something works, it just means that the idea is patentable and likely not already registered. The fundamental idea of HAFC (adding electrolyzed water to fuel mixtures) has a patent long since expired and is legal for anyone to manufacture. Dan Huffman of Michigan claims Lee stole his design.
Why don't you buy one and try it for yourself? My reasons are: I don't think it works, I don't want to give money to crooks, It could void my warranty, It could harm my car. People who have had it installed have told me they got the run around for months and still can't get their money back.
Is it true that thousands of people have had successful installations. I doubt it – if there are, why can't I find even one who is willing to openly show it for $1000? If I had a car that had the solution to our pollution problem, or oil induced foreign trade problem, and our economic problem, I would be showing it all over the country to large audiences of credible people. I'd take it to universities, press people, government people, other skeptics and be on the cover of Time magazine in 2 weeks.
What is the history of HAFC? False high mileage claims have been around for 80 years now. The biggest person in it in the 1980's was Paul Pantone (now in jail), Dennis Lee teamed up with Pantone in 2001 to promote Pantones GEET system (which did nothing more than bankrupt investors). The two had an inevitable collision and Lee started selling a non-working high mileage system called TEEG in around 2002 – that never worked. In 2006 he started with HAFC which is just a collection of other peoples mileage scams – the biggest of which is HHO.
If it is a scam, why hasn't the government shut it down? Do you really think the government is that effective and efficient? They are working on it. States have prosecuted Dennis Lee before, but liberal judges just give him fines or dismissed jail sentences – they don't bother even checking up that he hasn't violated stipulated judgments. Lee has a legal team to stall these things. The federal government is now prosecuting him, he may have another jail stay in his future. It remains to be seen if people supporting the scam will be effectively prosecuted.
Will HAFC harm my car? Sometimes it does – if your lucky, it does nothing to your car. The ways I know if that it could harm your car include: a leak in the gas line from modifications could cause your car to blow up or maybe just burn up, a leak of the caustic material added to the cell has been known to burn through engine parts, a leak of HHO gas generated could blow up your engine compartment. There was a newspaper report about Sammy, the lead technician for these systems with a truck burning up in the middle of an intersection. Again, most of these don't happen.
Is HAFC illegal to have in my car? As of March 2009, it is illegal in California because it is not CARB approved. There is some question if the EPA allows this stuff or not – I don't know. I expect that after the FTC finishes their court case, it will be illegal to sell the systems. The HAFC people claim it is all perfectly legal – they admit their promised PICC system is not legal.
Will the system void my warranty? I imagine that probably depends on the car manufacturer – I honestly don't know. Dutchman claims there is some law that says such systems can't violate warrantys. I'm not a lawyer, I don't know.
Does Dutchman really have over 100 companies producing HAFC kits. I doubt it, I think such claims are part of a pattern of fraud to suck in investors who put up their whole life's savings. If they have lots of kit makers, that only casts doubt on the quality of product.
Where can I find an installer or tuner for my HAFC system. Like many scams, they don't publish lists of people who support the product. A number of people have bought systems that don't work and an excuse offered is “well you have to find the right person to tune it” - but such people can be a state away and unlikely to be of help.
Didn't FORD Motor Company validate the technology. Far from it, they put out a press release saying they have never had anything to do with it. If it really worked, Ford would use to save their company from bankruptcy and use their legal team to worry about ownership later. Dutchman claims Ford backed out because they were mad a Dennis dealer copied their logo [yeah, I know, they usually come up with better lies than that].
Is this from the same people offering free electricity? Yup, it's been promised, “in a few months” . . . for the last 25 years by Dennis Lee. The companies ITEC, UCSA, BWT and Dutchman all share the same address and appear run by the same people – government prosecutors seem to consider them the same thing.
Didn't Dutchman and Dennis Lee win total exoneration in federal court in February of 2009? No, they only got a temporary restraining order lifted. The FTC has found out that Dutchmans court papers filed listed people claimed to be getting doubled mileage who actually are trying to get their money back. The FTC since then has gone on record claiming they will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.
I have a HAFC car that really works that I am happy with – what should I do? First of all, I have heard from a number of people claiming this, but I think they are shills because none are willing to openly validate it. If you have the real thing, call local news reporters (small town papers if you believe the networks are all censored by big oil) and local universities – contact me, I will arrange independent witnesses in your area – just give an hour demonstration, that would set things on a course for it to be proven, me to make a huge apology and conversion and the world to start a huge change for the better. If you have a working car and are unwilling to do this, you are an absolute heartless scum ball.
But I heard a story of this person who got over 100 mpg. I've contacted the people behind these urban legends – even if I offer them thousands to show me – they won't. These people are shills – that's how many MLM predators operate by having false stories of people who do well. There are a number of high mileage scams out there – they operate the same way. It is all about paid disinformationalists. Wait for Wallmart to carry it or Consumer Reports or the Society of Automotive Engineers to validate it.
I've been ripped off by the Dutchman – what can I do? Don't be talked into endless adjustments because they count on most people just quietly giving up after about 5 visits or changes of unrelated parts. Save all receipts and keep logs of every thing and every time you did something. Send letter 1 first to the person who sent you Remember, justice here is not just about you – every time you recover money from a cheat, you are discouraging them and those like them from ripping off other people. If the person who sold it to you doesn't give you your kit and install cost back, let me know, also contact your local BBB, your state's attorney general, the attorney general of the state of the dealer and the NJ state attorney general. You can also sue in small claims court. As of 3-15-9, the FTC is prosecuting him and interested in recovering money to pay back victims – victims should contact them via Josh Millard
what is your angle in this, why are you involved. I have been following the claims of Dennis Lee for 12 years now. I committed to provide the scientific and rational point of view to what I believe is nonsense designed to cheat people. I feel bad for the many people who have lost their lifes' savings to Dennis Lee's 30 years of various scams including this.
Aren't these people ticked at you? Yes, they hate me even though I volunteer to join their side if they would just show me real proof. Their cult-like leader Dennis Lee has sued me since 2004 multiple time in federal court trying to silence me. As of 3-11-9, the last case was thrown out with prejudice against their side. Luckily my insurance company has picked up the cost of defense. My web pages have never been down and I will not forfeit the truth. It is important that honest Americans defend the first amendment right of free expressions against criminal groups that would try to use the legal system to silence whistle blowers. I'm inspired on by our brave men in uniform – if they can die on the beaches of Normandy for our freedoms, than I can endure a bunch of legal nonsense to stand up for freedom.

Announcement: The Dateline NBC ran an amazing story Apr 5^th, found at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29899191

How to get your money back from a bad HAFC install:

There looks like there will be case law very soon proving HAFC to be a fraud. Fraud is a criminal offense both on a federal level and in every state. Fraud is when you are convinced based on false information to give money for something. I believe the science given in the HAFC is false as are the vast majority if not all the claims of doubled mileage in their literature. I believe anyone who has given money based on this misinformation to be a victim of fraud – this would include HAFC kit buyers, those who bought dealerships, ad buy program contributers (those people put up millions), those who paid to become trainers, and those who paid to learn how to modify cars. I believe all these groups of people who are not satisfied with their investment should first ask the person or company that got their money for their money and expenses back - Failing that, one should file a simple suit in small claims court of their municipality, inform the FTC and the consumer division of attorneys general office for all states involved. If you don't do this, you are allowing your money to be used to keep the scam going to hurt other people. If you do go through the process, you have a chance to get at least some of your money back and you have at least held a line against one set of crooks.

sample of letter to send to whoever sold you the kit:

Dear ___________,

On ______ I paid you _____ for _____. I am not interested in spending months on a wild goose chase of being told to make this adjustment or travel to that person for help. I believe that process is a game to buy time and wear people down to give up with out getting any results. I like a growing number of victims of this product believe I was convinced to hand over money to you based on false information. I agree with the preliminary assessment by the FTC that this is a major nationwide fraud. If you do not with in 10 days refund my ____ paid for the kit and ____ for installation costs, I will sue you locally in my jurisdiction for the ____ limit allowed in small claims court, report you to the BBB of both our areas, phone-call-write the consumer division of the attorney generals of all states involved, allow skeptic, Eric Krieg to publish my story, cooperate with investigative journalists and try to convince Josh Millard of the FTC to include you in his on going prosecution, I'm sorry if you also are a victim of Dennis Lee, but you should have done more research into his past before selling a fraudulent product.

Sincerely ________________

The person will likely make them first try what they are best at – trying to convince you to try one more adjustment – don't fall for that. People are all over the country being strung along that way. Go for the money – if you don't get it, at least go to the authorities who may be able to convince them to pay you back.

The following is my page found at www.phact.org/e/hafc.htm

HAFC or PICC High Mileage Is the Dutchman Enterprise system a scam ?

Dennis Lee claims to have demonstrated a vehicle getting over 100 mpg at the 2008 WIREC show in Washington DC. But is this really a scam? This page at www.phact.org/hafc.htm

Open offer to owners of Dutchman Enterprises

Just allow me to test one of the 100's of converted cars and I will honestly report the mileage found right here. It is 3-3-8, I have been making this offer to validate Dennis Lee's various high mileage claims for 5 years now. If hundreds of people are trained to convert cars and if there are hundreds of high mileage cars out there, why not let test one and report it right on this page. Why do you pay millions for ads and ignore my offer to go from leading critic to strongest promoter?

The marketing person behind Dutchman Enterprises, Dennis Lee, has been promising free electricity for over 20 years and super high mileage for over 6 years. His high mileage pitches have included systems like GEET, TEEG, HAFC and PICC

Mike at mtrahan674 at comcast.net is interested in buying a dealership. If you are wanting a good chance to get out, email him , make an offer. If he is going to lose his money, better it be to a existing victim than to Dennis.

Here is a link by someone who is trying to sue to get his money back from an unworking HAFC
https://webcom.jp.pima.gov/eFiling/eFilingView.asp?CaseNumber=CV08-512493

The best back and forth discussions of HAFC right now with both pro and con posts are at
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/16400?frmtrk=cr4sd#newcomments
Some people have pointed out that the system is dangerous for a number of reasons: the gas produced could detonate, the caustic solution is very reactive, the electrical connections could easily arc, and the covalizer is carcinogenic.

High mileage scams are going up along with fuel costs - here is a similar one - at least they only charge 50$ to tell you how to run a car on water.
http://www.5starshine.com/ebook.html
here is a much cheaper alternative for someone wanting to investigate adding hydrogen to engines:
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/

The following is an open challenge from big time Dennis dealer, Jeff Otto claiming to want to have a $5000 challenge with any HFAC critic
http://update.jeffotto.com/#Hydro and http://peswiki.com/index.php/Validation:JeffOtto.com_LTD%27s_challenge_to_HAFC_critics
I would be glad to accept this - Problem is, he won't respond to my emails in the past week to negotiate terms for this test.

I discovered the newspaper in NM that at first ran an unsubstantiated claim of high mileage for the HAFC or PICC quickly since realized the error of their ways and replaced that unchallenged report with the following one summarizing Dennis's absurd claims and his long criminal history at
http://www.lcni5.com/cgi-bin/storyviewxarchive.cgi?080+20071112.News.2007119-3314-080-080030.archive+News

I understand that Dennis's leading installer is in NM, I am trying to put him in touch with a skeptics group in that state that I believe is willing to be independent witnesses to a demonstration that the installer says he is willing to give. I just want to get at the truth and report it. If they validate the high mileage, I will fly out to check it out- if I see it true, I will pay $1000 for setting me straight. In any event, I will publish the results on this forum and on my page at
www.phact.org/hafc.htm

Here is a link on Washington state's efforts to stop Lee's scams
http://www.atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id=3892

There is an email list that gives information on some of the other fraudulent high mileage scams out there at
EcoEnergizerComplaints@yahoogroups.com
One former HAFC promoter just admitted to me that he feels the whole thing is a scam, he backed out and tried to get the downstream MLM from him to do the same.

It is only 97 days before Dennis's next promised free electricity date of July 10 2008. If he is truthful about demo-ing at 100 stadiums on that day, he should have most of them booked now because they probably have long lead times.

Doesn't it seem strange that Dennis runs a million dollars on ads (that look like a scam to most observers) - but months later does not even have enough kits ready to even supply dealers and affiliates.

I was recently interviewed by Sterling Allan on the subject of examining free energy claims - you can hear me mention people like Dennis at
http://www.podshow.com/player/psp.php?theFeed=pesn&theEpisode=106163

Here is how I have noted that past high mileage scams have made money: All the dealers think everyone but them has it working and they only need wait a little more or few adjustments to get theirs to work. That's one of the reasons Dennis works hard to keep these people from talking to each other. If it really worked, free small town media coverage would quickly do far more than their expensive ad campaign.

Among the warning lights that imply this is just one more high mileage scam:
    No real independent confirmation
    Heavy MLM solicitations
    No physical address listed – and magnets do not affect fuel

Dennis claims he is only an Employee of "Dutchman Enterprises", but here is why I think it is really no different than Lee's other shell companies like BWT, ITEC, and UCSA:

he is not able to let anyone else control things;
there is no listed person/people running it,
the physical location address is the same as the other "companies";
no one from their email address will respond to my simple offer to be convinced by proof.

Sterling Allan is an independent promoter of free energy ideas and has been slowly realizing there are a lot of scams out there. He has challenged a big time Dennis follower to figure out which one of us is the liar. Among Sterling's conclusions are:

I am not convinced that Krieg is the liar. To the contrary, I see Dennis Lee as the wordsmith full of contradictions that are dishonest and twist the truth. That doesn't mean he doesn't have legitimate technology, but it does cast a dark shadow on the legitimacy of his claims, and it heightens the need for independent corroboration.

You can see Sterling's independent write up at:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Dennis_Lee#Dennis_Lee_v._Eric_Krieg

An independent page from someone warning people about Lee is found at
http://tellme1st.net/energy-resources/DennisLee/Scam_alert.htm

You can see Dennis's promise to have a booth at the March 4-6 Washington International Renewable Energy Conference at:
http://www.omniclub.net/mechsales.pdf
There is a good site at
http://www.electricitybook.com/dennis-lee-scam/
http://www.livescience.com/blogs/2006/03/18/dr-irving-crumplers-perpetual-lotion-machine/
Dennis is still at it and his people surely are. The site advertised is picctv.com which redirects to http://www.preignitioncc.com/ Most active dealers believe stories that other dealers are getting doubled car mileage with the car conversion kits. There are claims of over 50 cars getting doubled mileage. But there are no independent confirmations. I've told plenty of dealers I would be happy to switch sides if they offered real proof - with the real thing, they wouldn't have needed to pay a few hundred thousand for publicity. It should be easy for one of these 50 owners to show it to a small town newspaper reporter and quickly ride a media wave that ends on the front page of Time and Newsweek. I believe the game has two excuses used: when people don't get the mileage they are told "you did something wrong, because other people get it" or "oh, there are a few technical difficulties, just wait for the improved version to come out". Those excuses have kept others doing the high mileage scam taking money for years. Dennis's people have launched a huge nationwide media campaign including full page ads in major magazines including Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, Sierra Club's Magazine, National Enquirer, Motor Magazine, Mother Jones & Environment.. Dennis still promises that he will have demonstrations of free electricity in stadiums in most states across the nation on July 10 of 2008.

    I think Lee's big chance in the last few years is to duck responsibility for all he does by running shell companies that he claims his dealers own. Companies like "Dutchman Enterprises" have their listed physical address (usually the physical address is hidden in this scam) at Dennis's location on Rt 23 in Newfoundland NJ.
If you invested in a dealership or ad-buy program based on info you have found to be false, you are a victim of fraud and it is never to late to report it to your state attorneys general (don't forget to copy to NJ) found from this list:
find your state's attorney general   Even if you do not recover your losses, you are at least being socially responsible to make it less likely for someone else to get ripped off. Ditto for anyone having trouble getting made whole for a non-working HFAC.

Here are the full page ads said to have been part of Dennis Lee's multi million dollar ad campaign to get more suckers
http://high-tech-energy-solutions.com/pdf/Hybrid.pdf
http://high-tech-energy-solutions.com/pdf/Cleaner.pdf
http://high-tech-energy-solutions.com/pdf/Highway.pdf
http://high-tech-energy-solutions.com/pdf/Mileage.pdf
http://high-tech-energy-solutions.com/pdf/Motorhead.pdf
this last one was in Newsweek
http://high-tech-energy-solutions.com/pdf/newsweek-ad.pdf

Dennis claims he is only an Employee of "Dutchman Enterprises", but here is why I think it is really no different than Lee's other shell companies like BWT, ITEC, and UCSA:   he is not able to let anyone else control things; there is no listed person/people running it, the physical location address is the same as the other "companies"; no one from their email address will respond to my simple offer to be convinced by proof. Also, the main Dutchman web site is registered by the same person running Dennis's site. Dennis has a long history of constantly changing program names and company names, but they all end up as financial black holes.

There is also now a dedicated uncensored email list just for any info about HAFC and PICC; it is open for believers in either Dennis or science.

An independent review of Lee's accusation that I am lying.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Dennis_Lee#Dennis_Lee_v._Eric_Krieg

Here are web pages (by people I don't know) talking about Lee scams:
http://www.electricitybook.com/dennis-lee-scam/
http://tellme1st.net/energy-resources/DennisLee/Scam_alert.htm

more BBB warnings about HAFC

In short, I think Lee learned from his former business partner, Paul Pantone to make all the buyers think that everyone but them has it working and then just string them along.

Uncensored past discussions from either point of view on Dennis can be found from:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bwt/messages

Dennis claims that "We do have a few hundred customers who have experienced the HAFC technology" - if this is true, then it should be easy for me to openly be proven wrong. Dennis had a cool excuse to the effect, "we can't give people references because those giving them would be too busy being constantly called.”

The following is a good place to see discussion of Lee's 20 year history of impossible technology claims.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bwt/messages

I have heard a number of reports from people who have failed after months of trying to get it to work and some who have had trouble getting their money back – like in Jan of 2009, I got the follow message

On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Anita wrote:

I don't mind if you post my message . <snip> I already have about $3000.00 in to this but I paid 42,000.00 for my truck that I still owe 23,000.00 on it. It is less then 3yrs old with about 23,000 miles on it. I had no problems with it until I put this part on it. With in the first month the HAFC was on my car the chemicals had gunked up my throttle body so bad it was scary to drive the truck. When you pressed the gas the truck would jolt. My husband thought out the gate that the problems we are having are directly related to this part. The instruction manual you get is very veg and out dated according to the seller. The installer advice and the seller advice are totally different. nothing coincides. The more so called professionals you talk the more confused you get. Any new information I get I will send your way. I thought it was funny that everyone that stated in posts that there HAFC was running great and working not one of them has been back after that post to state it is still working. i guess if they have the money to go to a certified installer every month to have it tuned it might still be working. Thanks Anita

On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 12:31 AM, Anita wrote:

> I have read many posts that you have left on the Internet. To bad I did not do all the research before I bought this HAFC piece of crap. Or looked up Dennis Lee in the BBB if I had I would not ever of bought it. I read about this product in popular science, they must not do much research before they publish things either. After spending allot more money on this product than I care to admit I haven't found anyway to try to correct the problem. I filed a complaint with the BBB they have transferred the case back and forth to 3 different states, now i am sure that is not going to go anywhere. I bought this item back in March, received it the end of May. Our local mechanic of 25 years and my husband who was a mechanic in the Navy after 4 days finally got it put on. First test run was great. After that everything went down hill. The end of July JeffOtto found us a certified installer in AZ. we live in Idaho and this was the closest he could find to us that was excepting new customers. Well after what we already had in it we went ahead and took it to AZ. After 5 days in a motel with no car the installer got it reinstalled and tuned and it only too cost another $600.00 and even then we never saw the gas savings. We were pretty sick over it. In August our truck got to the point where it almost would not start. We removed the unit and our truck would start again. I called the installer and asked what I could do with the unit and get this, he told me to try to sell it on ebay. What a Joke. Then last month our truck started running bad again. Now its been over at the Ford garage for 3 weeks and they are not sure what the problem is after talking to the ford garage today they had one more thing to try before they peg it to an electrical problem. Of course if they have to open up the wiring harness on the truck, bamm our warranty will be shot because a lot of the wires have been tapped into, even though everything has been soldered back. This thing has been a nightmare. All I can do is chalk it up to a learning experience I don't think there is anyway to sue this kind of a person and get anywhere. But all the crap you have been through with them and just keep trying to let people know what scams he has done might help this from happening to someone else. I admire you for your persistence. Thanks, Anita !

other questions for people promoting HAFC or PICC:

Where is their proof of Dennis Lee really having patents on this “technology”?
Why haven't you gotten cheap free publicity by just having small town newspaper reporters give independent validation?