Eric, I've modified the post marginally to give it context and to clarify some points. You may forward it to your email list at your discretion. You do maintain an interesting page. I've bookmarked it for futher exploration when I have more time. Paul Paul.Bernhardt@m.cc.utah.edu wrote: The following is in reference the recent cablecast on A&E Television (USA), Scams, Schemes and Scoundrels. All is my personal opinion soley and not that of my employers, past or present, or the University of Utah. I felt they were too sympathetic with him. All I could think of was what another skeptic poster (to Skeptic list) asked, "Why not ask him to plug his machine's input into it's output and it should run itself into oblivion?" They made it look a bit like the patent office was incapable of understanding what some folks bring in (probably true) and how that implies they may not understand his machine (probably not true). The others were really good exposures of the scams, but they made that segment look too much like the big bad government is beating up on this poor guy. My understanding on lots of these things (free energy machines) is they simply change the shape of the alternating current wave form such that the measurement devices are misrepresenting the output. In the two extremes of periodic outputs are triangular and square waves. If you put a triangle wave through a meter that expects a sinusoidal wave, it will get the output wrong (too low) because it calcualtes a root mean square value for the output. If you put in a square wave you will often get an over-estimate of power for the same reason. It is also to fool in a more subtle way, by marginal changes in the shape of the output wave form that will still appear sinuasoidal-ish but is actually not a sinusoidal wave. These can also result in over-estimation of the power output. Paul Bernhardt, M.S. (Psychology) Mr. Bernhardt is also a licensed Professional Engineer in the state of Georgia, USA, and is ombudsman for the Usenet newsgroup sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated.