This addresses one of my favorite groups of all: the


professional skeptic crowd.  I want to define my terms here.  By


 "professional" I mean those who do it for a living or spend much


more time doing it than any healthy hobbyist would.  James Randi


is a professional skeptic.  So was the recently-departed Carl


Sagan.  Those people literally made money, and lots of it, from


their "skeptical" efforts.  And then there is a whole population of


people who almost without exception work for big power structure


organizations, like James Oberg of NASA, or Isaac Asimov, who


spent many, many hours of their lives being "skeptical."  And while


they don’t make money officially for their "skeptical" efforts, there


are power structure awards aplenty showered on their heads (Like


Randi winning a prestigious physics award for helping debunk an


immunologist who apparently found evidence that water had


 "memory."  An effect that is apparently getting more scientific


confirmation today.), and I can only wonder how many in their


ranks are like Bill the Hit Man, getting quietly paid for their efforts


through either the large corporations or the CIA.  And I happen to


know what I am talking regarding that phenomenon of secret


payments for dutiful work on behalf of the CIA or corporate


America, and I won’t go further into it here to protect identities.


        And I have a real problem with the moniker of "skeptic" that


those groups have nearly appropriated.  Most prominent is the


Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the


Paranormal, abbreviated CSICOP.  CSICOP publishes a quarterly


magazine called The Skeptical Inquirer.  I go into their particular


contributions in my science piece a little, and here will be a more


thorough job on it.  In one of the back issues of The Skeptical


Inquirer that I read I saw a little piece that took pains to define the


word "skeptic."  Well, I wish those people at CSICOP would


evidence a little more skepticism where it really counted, like at


their own cherished beliefs.  I have yet to see one article in their


pages that seriously challenges the power structure.  And they


even bless power structure hatchet jobs, like the one done on


Reich, replete with a massive book burning.  


          Here is my take on skepticism.  True skepticism is one of


the more important qualities of the human mind.  Virtually every


breakthrough in thought that has ever occurred has skepticism to


thank.  Being skeptical is to look at something with no beliefs, with


a fresh eye that takes nothing for granted.  The greatest skeptical


breakthroughs have happened when the founding presumptions of


a body of thought were looked at with a skeptical eye and


questioned.  Einstein’s rejection of Newton’s presumptions of


absolute time and absolute space led to the physics we have


today.  Questioning the infallibility of the Pope and the Bible


sparked all sorts of fireworks that led to the scientific


establishment that we have today.  True skepticism is an


invaluable tool of discovery.  In many, many cases it bears little or


no resemblance to the CSICOP crowd’s efforts.  In so many ways


what they do is in spirit identical to what the Holy Office of the


Inquisition did so many years ago, as it viciously defended its


wealth and power.  And I had better back some of that up with


facts.  


          The recently departed Carl Sagan was the most famous and


active member of the CSICOP crowd.  Carl Sagan was a


household word and I’m sure the eulogies are pouring in, as he


died two days ago as I write this.  Carl was the big gun and hero of


the CSICOP crowd, being the honored guest at their annual


meetings, writing pieces for the Skeptical Inquirer, and lending his


huge reputation to their cause.  I have been aware of Sagan’s


 "skeptical" efforts for awhile now, like the past twenty years.  In


1974 I took Silva Mind Control and found out that I and every


person on the planet was inherently psychic, something the armies


of professional skeptics can never take away with their


proclamations.  While I was exploring the nature of my


consciousness, Sagan was forming an inquisition to wipe out any


funding to any academic institution for exploring "paranormal"


phenomena.  My father apprised me of Sagan’s efforts twenty


years ago.  


          Over the last several years I have read quite a bit about


Sagan’s debunking efforts.  In 1985 I read a piece by Carl Sagan


regarding the Face on Mars issue.  I write about it in some detail


in my revised science section.  Sagan’s effort was such a blatant


piece of out and out lying on the issue that it eventually inspired


Professor Stanley McDaniel to write his McDaniel Report, where


he laid Sagan’s lies bare for all to see.  McDaniel did it in very


conservative language and scholarship, but for anybody who had


read Sagan’s piece in Parade magazine in 1985 and McDaniel’s


dissection of it, where the reader gets to find out the facts about it,


Sagan is exposed as not only a huge liar, but one who used his


lies to beat other researchers over the head very unfairly.  Sagan


abused his position as the nation’s most prominent scientists to


savage research being done by other researchers, and he did it in


a very mean-spirited and dishonest way.  Get the McDaniel report


if you don’t believe me, and round up that Parade magazine article


of June 2, 1985.  


          In my science piece I go into the Velikovsky affair, and as I


write this I am reading Ginenthal’s book on the Sagan/Velikovsky


controversy.  Ginenthal’s book is awesome.  I cannot overstate


how completely Ginenthal dismantles Sagan’s lying and bogus


science on the Velikovsky issue.  Sagan is completely demolished


as a scientist in Ginenthal’s book, and his Grand Inquisitor’s hat is


clear for all to see as he led the Inquisition against Velikovsky. 


And in The Skeptical Inquirer I saw the review on the hatchet job


done on Velikovsky in 1974, where the organizer of the event


even admitted that it was an attempt to discredit Velikovsky, and


not a fair scientific forum.  The Skeptical Inquirer didn’t exactly


report all the facts.  


          In fact there was a scandal shortly after CSICOP was


formed in the 1970s, when CSICOP debunked research into some


validity of astrological theory.  CSICOP roundly debunked (By


doing their own research) the statistical data that the original


researchers came up with, by coming up some of their own.  But


when it was published, Dennis Rawlins, a CSICOP executive


committee member and statistician for that particular debunking


effort, could take it no longer and made public that the CSICOP


had cooked their own numbers to fudge the data, and he resigned


from CSICOP in disgust, and there were other scandals


percolating under the CSICOP surface, but apparently covered up


before too much damage to CSICOP’s credibility was done.  Since


then CSICOP does no real research of its own, but issues its


proclamations on behalf of the scientific establishment.   


          I go into Randi’s efforts in debunkery in my science section. 


Get Richard Milton’s Forbidden Science, or Robert Anton Wilson’s


The New Inquisition for more on Randi and the CSICOP crowd, or


just read a bunch of issues of The Skeptical Inquirer like I have,


and you will get a taste of their dubious efforts.


          So after having studied the skeptical crowd at length, I have


to say I seriously doubt the motivation of many in their ranks.  In


even the ones that are relatively honest, they often suffer from


rigid beliefs and evidence a healthy regard for our nation’s


propaganda systems, as they are true believers in the power


structure, and have never seen and cannot seem to imagine the


power structure abusing its power.  


          And in the "skeptic" world they have their own special


buzzwords and attitudes.  Two of their favorite words, in fact two


that scarcely any article of theirs is missing are: pseudoscience


and anecdotal.  Pseudoscience means "false science," of course


with the unstated "fact" that what the debunker is practicing is the


one, true science.  And "anecdotal" is even more charming. 


Anecdotal means that a human being reported a fact or


phenomenon that the "skeptic" did not also witness.  Anecdotal


means that it is "not reproducible," and therefore not worthy to be


entered into the scientific ledgers as actual evidence. 


          So if an alien spaceship landed on your lawn and you told a


scientist about it, or particularly the "skeptic" world, your report


would be chalked up as "anecdotal" and dismissed.  If a million of


you witnessed a UFO on your lawn, that would sure be a lot of


anecdotes, but not really convincing evidence.  And if about a


hundred thousand people witnessed the "miracle of Fatima" earlier


in this century where an apparition of apparently Jesus’ mother


appeared in the sky for quite some time, that is one heck of an


anecdote, or a mass delusion, where a hundred thousand people


somehow convinced themselves that they all saw something in the


sky that looked pretty amazing.  But if the UFO did land on your


lawn, and you had a chat with the little green men, yes, you would


be laughed at by the "skeptics," but you would be the one living in


reality and they would living in the fantasy world, thinking they


have reality all figured out.  Because you can’t "prove" it to them,


doesn’t mean they are right or know what they are talking about.  I


know for a fact that James Randi has no idea what he is talking


about with his arrogant boasts, but I can’t "prove" his reality to him.


          In the world of the "skeptic," human testimony is inherently


suspect, not really something to hang your scientific hat on, or


really consider seriously at all, because in the scientific view of the


world, what goes on between your ears is the illusion, and what is


real is what is going on "out there."  But don’t ask those scientific


authorities where that idea came from, because they will point


between their ears, and we all know that what goes on in there is


some accidental byproduct of chemical reactions, an illusion at


best.  And don’t tell them that attitude is somewhat akin to a snake


eating its tail.  They won’t like that analogy.  


          And if you somehow produce a Polaroid photo of the UFO


that landed on your lawn, that also can be faked, so a "skeptic"


also knows that is inadmissible as evidence.  And if you have


spectacular video footage of it, or if hundreds of people take video


footage of the same crafts, like what happened in Mexico City


during a total eclipse of a few years ago, man oh man, the faking


factories sure must have been working overtime to churn out so


much bogus footage.  


          And if NASA’s cameras themselves photograph a


spectacular space sequence of an apparently intelligently-piloted


craft making a greater-than-right- angle turn at speeds no human


made craft has ever been observed to attain, to avoid an


apparently ground-based "shotgun blast" that ripped through the


atmosphere, right above a super-secret American military base in


Australia, why the CSICOP bunch simply gets their NASA buddy


James Oberg to analyze the footage and conclude that what you


were seeing was a combination of illusion and coincidence.  The


 "craft" (And there were more than one of them in that infamous


footage.) is actually not a light hundreds of miles away, as


appears obvious, but actually are floating ice crystals a few feet


from the viewer, and them making their right angle turns was


because they were being blown by a rocket firing on the space


shuttle.  See, it is all so easily explained away!  


          And what about the "shotgun blast" ripping through the


atmosphere right where that illusionary ice particle appeared to be


sitting a few hundred miles away?   Well, Mr. Oberg doesn’t see fit


to mention that little anomaly.  If pressed, I’m sure he can come up


with another "rational" explanation to explain away that


phenomena.  And isn’t it weird that the ice particles were getting


blown sideways mere instants before that as-of-yet unexplained


 "shotgun blast" ripping through the atmosphere?  Man, what a


coincidence!  That phenomenon is what I call the "Rodney King


Beating Phenomenon," where by enough "analysis" people can be


convinced that their eyes didn’t really see what they saw.             


          It isn’t fun to read the work of the debunkers.  Their bag of


tricks can be a very unsavory bag indeed, and it can get


nauseating to read Carl Sagan’s very dubious tactical inventions


in the debunker game.  And here is something to really enrage the


 "skeptical" crowd.  There is another group out there who is lifting


the "skeptical" tactics right out of the CSICOP handbook, and


using them in a way that recalls Carl Sagan at his best: The


Holocaust Deniers.   You should read their work.  It is very


enlightening.  All the testimony of the death camp survivors is


dismissed as "anecdotal" and unreliable.  And because the Nazis


took great care to keep their genocidal activities out of the evening


news, and also because neither the German people nor any of the


other Western Nations really cared that Jews were getting


murdered by the millions in the death camps, little actual


undeniable physical evidence of the genocidal activity actually


survived.  So the Holocaust Deniers get to nearly "legitimately" put


forth their arguments.  Debunking the Holocaust is nearly an


industry in the Far Right circles.  CSICOP should perhaps


consider admitting them as honorary members.


          In my science section I stated that there are some CSICOP


members whom I actually respect, and that not all of their work is


garbage.  I won’t paint them all with the same brush.  And many


CSICOP members actually resigned from CSICOP when the


numbers cooking scandal erupted a generation ago, so at least


some CSICOP members get points in my book.


          In the McDaniel Report, in the appendix is an abbreviated


course in debunking, a tongue-in-cheek effort by Daniel Drasin.  It


is an abridged version of his full course, and it is reproduced in its


entirety in Zen in the Art of Close Encounters, edited by Paul


David Pursglove.  Mr. Drasin also evidences long study of the


 "skeptical" club, and many of his pointers for aspiring debunkers


are right on the mark.   I will just give you some of his pointers and


some of his more astute observations.





          Before commencing to debunk, prepare your equipment. 


Equipment needed: one armchair.


          Put on the right face.  Cultivate a condescending air that


suggests that your personal opinions are backed by the full faith


and credit of God.  Employ vague, subjective, dismissive terms


such as "ridiculous" or "trivial" in a manner that suggests they


have the full force of scientific authority.


          Portray science as not an open-ended process of discovery


but as holy war against unruly hordes of quackery-worshipping


infidels.  Since in war the ends justify the means, you may fudge,


stretch, or violate the scientific method, or even omit it entirely, in


the name of defending scientific method.


          Keep your arguments as abstract and theoretical as


possible.  This will "send the message" that accepted theory


overrides any actual evidence that might challenge it - and that


therefore no such evidence is worth examining.


          Reinforce the popular misconception that certain subjects


are inherently unscientific.  In other words, deliberately confuse


the process of science with the content of science.  (Someone


may, of course, object that science must be neutral to subject


matter and that only the investigative process can be scientifically


responsible or irresponsible.  If that happens, dismiss such


objections using a method employed successfully by generations


of politicians: simply reassure everyone that "there is no


contradiction here.")


          Arrange to have your message echoed by persons of


authority. The degree to which you can stretch the truth is directly


proportional to the prestige of your mouthpiece.


          Always refer to unorthodox statement as "claims" which are


 "touted," and to your own assertions as "facts" which are "stated."


          Avoid examining the actual evidence.  This allows you to


say with impunity, "I have seen absolutely no evidence to support


such ridiculous claims!"


          If examining the evidence becomes unavoidable, report


back that "there is nothing new here!"  If confronted by a watertight


body of evidence that has withstood the most rigorous tests,


simply dismiss it as being "too pat."


          Equate the necessary skeptical component of science with


all of science.  Emphasize the narrow, stringent, rigorous and


critical elements of science to the exclusion of intuition,


inspiration, exploration and integration.  If anybody objects,


accuse them of viewing science in exclusively fuzzy, subjective or


metaphysical terms.  


          Insist that the progress of science depends on explaining


the unknown in terms of the known.  In other words, science


equals reductionism.  You can apply the reductionist approach in


any situation by discarding more and more evidence until what is


left can finally be explained in terms of established knowledge.  


          Maintain that in investigation of unconventional phenomena,


a single flaw invalidates the whole.  In conventional contexts,


however, you may sagely remind the world that "after all,


situations are complex and human beings are imperfect."


          Although science is not supposed to tolerate vague or


double standards, always insist that unconventional phenomena


must be judged by a separate, yet ill-defined, set of scientific


rules.  Do this by declaring that "extraordinary claims demand


extraordinary evidence" - but take care never to define where the


 "ordinary" ends and the "extraordinary" begins.  This will allow


you to manufacture an infinitely receding evidential horizon, i.e. to


define "extraordinary" evidence as that which lies just out of reach


at any point in time.


          Practice debunkery-by-association.  Lump together all


phenomena popularly deemed paranormal and suggest that their


proponents and researchers speak with a single voice.  In this way


you can indiscriminately drag material across disciplinary lines or


from one case to another to support your views as needed.  For


example, if a claim having some superficial similarity to one at


hand has been (or is popularly assumed to have been) exposed


as fraudulent, cite it as if it were an appropriate example.  Then


put on a gloating smile, lean back in your armchair and simply say


 "I rest my case."


          If a significant number of people agree they have observed


something that violates the consensus reality, simply ascribe it to


 "mass hallucination."  Avoid addressing the possibility that the


consensus reality, which is routinely observed by millions, might


itself constitute a mass hallucination.


          Ridicule, ridicule, ridicule.  It is far and away the single most


effective weapon in the war against discovery and innovation. 


Ridicule has the unique power to make people of virtually any


persuasion go completely unconscious in a twinkling. It fails to


sway only those few who are of sufficiently independent mind not


to buy into the kind of emotional consensus that ridicule provides.  


          By appropriate innuendo and example, imply that ridicule


constitutes an essential feature of scientific method that can raise


the level of objectivity, integrity and dispassionateness with which


any investigation is conducted.


          Trivialize the case by trivializing the entire field in question. 


Characterize the study of orthodox phenomena as deep and time


consuming, while deeming that of unorthodox phenomena so


insubstantial as to demand nothing more than a scan of the


tabloids.  If pressed on this, simply say "but there’s nothing there


to study!"  Characterize any serious investigator of the unorthodox


as a "buff" or "freak," or as "self-styled" - the media’s favorite code


word for bogus.


          Remember that most people do not have sufficient time or


expertise for careful discrimination, and tend to accept or reject


the whole of an unfamiliar situation.  So discredit the whole story


by attempting to discredit part of the story.  Here’s how: a) take


one element of a case completely out of context; b) find something


prosaic that hypothetically could explain it; c) declare that,


therefore, this one element has been explained; d) call a press


conference and announce to the world that the entire case has


been explained!


          Ask unanswerable questions based on arbitrary criteria of


proof.  For example, "if this claim were true, why haven’t we seen


it on TV?" or "in this or that scientific journal?"  Never forget the


mother of all such questions: "If UFOs are extraterrestrial, why


haven’t they landed on the White House lawn?"


          Be selective.  For example, if an unorthodox healing method


has failed to reverse a case of terminal illness you may deem it


worthless - while taking care to avoid mentioning the shortcomings


of conventional medicine.  


          Fabricate confessions.  If a phenomenon stubbornly refuses


to go away, set up a couple of colorful old geezers to claim they


hoaxed it.  The press and public will always tend to view


confessions as sincerely motivated, and will promptly abandon


their critical faculties.  After all, nobody wants to appear to lack


compassion for self-confessed sinners.





          And Drasin’s class goes on and on, quite brilliantly. 


Drasin’s course is a must for all aspiring debunkers.  Actually Mr.


Drasin I’m afraid can be accused of plagiarism, because much of


the course material was lifted from the CSICOP handbook, with


generous contributions by Sagan, Randi and others.


          And for all those skeptics out there, combing the planet,


looking for things to debunk, some phenomena and bodies of work


have just plain slipped their attention.  I invite your attention to


Moongate by William Brian II. He can be reached at P.O. Box


86372 Portland, Oregon, USA  97286-0372.  He published it in


1982, and I go into Brian’s work in some detail in my science


section.  His conclusions, based on some very persuasive data


from NASA, are that we have been lied to about the moon shots,


the surface gravity on the moon is higher than we have been told,


and he concludes that conventional rocketry technology was not


used to land and take off from the moon.  They are some very bold


charges, backed up with plenty of data, mathematical derivations,


references, footnotes, etc.  It is a very scholarly work.  So in the


fifteen years since Moongate has been published, how many


 "experts" have taken on his charges (Like big gun Oberg.), and


particularly the very impressive neutral point discrepancy?  I


contacted Brian, asking him.  "How many times have the experts


taken you on William?"  His answer is: not even once.  Moongate


is simply ignored like it was never written.  And it is a relatively


high profile book.  I have seen much lesser books receive the full


blast of the "skeptics."


          The same can be said of the microscopes of Naessens and


Rife, and their attendant microbiological discoveries.  You wonder


just what the "skeptics" are all about.  They can’t wait to try to


prove something a "scam" or "hoax" that doesn’t conform to


orthodox dogma.  But when very impressive evidence suggests


that we were hoodwinked by the establishment on the moon shots


as part of a general overall plan to keep free energy from the


public, or that orthodox cancer treatment is a fraud, sentencing


millions of people to unnecessary deaths, and there have been


microscopes built that have allowed research that has largely


proven those claims, the "skeptics" are nowhere to be found.  I


mean, it is surreal.  


          And when the King of the Debunkers is shown to be a


completely fraudulent debunker, and I have sent that information


to the "skeptics" time after time, the answer I get back from them is


complete and total silence.  I haven’t seen one debunker utter one


word about the fact that Sagan was a fraudulent debunker.  So I


am very skeptical of the skeptics. 

 NOTE FROM ERIC:  this whole file was made from Dennis's most

loyal follower ever, Wade Frazier.  For some reason, Wade just seemed

to disappear right after promising to look at my web pages. 

  And that brings me to Dennis’


most vocal skeptic on the Internet, Eric Krieg.  Eric is a very


interesting dichotomy.  I actually think he is sincere, but fell in with


the skeptic crowd (Actually a more descriptive term is "true


believer in the scientific establishment and the power structure."),


and has been led astray.  I am going to give Eric the benefit of the


doubt here and believe he is well-meaning, and not an agent of


the NSA or some Rockefeller-related organization.  


          If I was a "skeptic" out there, looking at Dennis for the first


time, there would be some questions I would be asking myself.  Is


he real and does he really have the marvelous technology that he


says he has or is pursuing, is he a scam, or (And this is an option I


haven’t seen pierce Eric’s brain yet.) is he a man who is trying to


get up enough momentum from the people so they can together


overcome the amazing suppression efforts that appear to have


been directed Dennis’ way, and he may or may not have the


technology he claims he has, but he is doing his best in the face of


almost impossible odds?  


          That is how I would start my investigation if I was a true


skeptic.  And to call somebody a fraud is serious business. 


Nobody should do that unless they have some serious evidence. 


But unfortunately Eric takes the fraud stance as his initial stance,


claiming to want to be swayed that maybe Dennis isn’t a fraud. 


Just look at his web pages, with their crackpot logos, Tom Napier’s


debunker masterpiece, etc.  Now let’s get back to investigating


Dennis.  Let’s look at the fraud issue.  To call somebody a fraud is


to say they are of dishonest intent, taking advantage of people to


take their money in a clever theft attempt.  The cornerstone of


fraud is that the defrauder be of "evil" intent. 


          If Dennis was a defrauder and a real bona fide crook, and


he has been at it for twenty years now, I’m sure he would have a


string of victims a mile long.  Well, who would be a victim? 


Basically a victim would be somebody who lost their life’s savings


by letting it get into Dennis’ greedy hands.  I have known Dennis


for almost eleven years now, and in that time the biggest financial


losers who have dealt with Dennis have been me, Mr. Professor


and Mr. Financier.  


          Mr. Professor and I got bankrupted directly by our


involvement with Dennis, as well as losing our life’s savings, which


in Mr. Professor’s case was one heck of a lot bigger than mine. 


Mr. Professor lost over $250,000 by his support for Dennis.  And


the ordeal also ruined Mr. Professor’s health and almost killed


him.  My net worth is still negative, and will likely be that way for


awhile.  And we weren’t just idle investors, giving Dennis the cash


and never seeing him again.  I lived with Dennis and his family for


a year, while I was his investor and employee.  When Dennis was


in jail the first time, Mr. Professor took in Alison and her children,


and they lived with Mr. Professor for over a year, and when Dennis


got out of jail, they all lived with Mr. Professor for several more


months.  It isn’t like Mr. Professor and I don’t know who Dennis is. 


And what kinds of bad things do we have to say about Dennis,


after having lost it all due to our involvement with him?  Well, I


think my web page speaks for itself.  Mr. Professor speaks even


more highly of Dennis than I do.  I don’t think Mr. Professor can


even bring himself to make the relatively few criticisms that I have


made on my web pages.  


          And a "skeptic" could say that Mr. Professor and I won’t tell


the world what a crook Dennis is either because we are just as


culpable, or are still planing on getting our money out of Dennis


someday, when the big scam really gets pulled off, or we are still


under his "malevolent spell," gullible to the end.  I have a hard


time somebody reading my web pages and calling me gullible.  I


can see people calling me a cynic, but I have a hard time


imagining them thinking that I am under Dennis’ artful spell, one


he has been able to sustain through two stints behind bars and


bankrupting me.  Well, for one thing, Dennis is under no legal


obligation to Mr. Professor or me.  If Dennis becomes the world’s


next zillionaire, Mr. Professor and I know we will be taken care of,


not because of a legal claim we have on Dennis, but because we


know who he is.  OK, so the intrepid skeptic discards all that


testimony from two of Dennis’ biggest economic "victims."  


          Then what about the biggest economic victim of all, Mr.


Financier?  He was the really big loser in Seattle.  Eighty percent


of those Seattle heat pump buyers didn’t pay one dime for their


systems.  All CONSERVE ever got was the tax credit money that


the customer got back with their tax return, and most never made


any payments under the System for Savings contracts because so


many of them didn’t work and Mr. Financier had his company


stolen from him at almost the same time Dennis did.  Mr. Financier


lost literally millions of dollars, and the company he had spent his


whole life building to boot.  If Dennis was a crook, you could count


on Mr. Financier to really let Dennis have it.  


          What does Mr. Financier have to say about the whole deal? 


His affidavit is an exhibit in Dennis’ book, The Alternative, dated


July 3rd, 1990 four years after Mr. Financier lost it all, and he


definitely has no legal claim on Dennis.  And Mr. Financier put his


money where his mouth was and put up millions of dollars to


finance Dennis’ heat pumps.  If you are a skeptical investigator,


meaning one who actually investigates, that should be a very


impressive piece of testimony, if you were trying to find out if


Dennis was a fraud.  And Mr. Financier has nothing bad to say in


his affidavit, but instead says that he had done very careful


research into the heat pump, to make sure it performed like


Dennis claimed it had, before he put up his millions of dollars. 


And Mr. Financier spoke very frankly about the actions of the


Attorney General’s office in their "consumer protection" act against


Dennis’ company.  And Mr. Financier ended his affidavit with


stating his belief that it was a conspiracy that caused his company


to be stolen mere weeks before Dennis had his company stolen.


          Eric Krieg e-mails me that he gets many e-mails a day


saying all sorts of bad things about Dennis.  Well, does he get


them from anybody who really knows what they are talking about? 


Dennis’ biggest "victims" have spoken out, and they aren’t telling


the world what a crook Dennis is.  Eric’s very public fraud


suspicions appear to be built on sand.  But Eric also says that


Dennis has had the officials after him in three states now, and


doesn’t that say a lot about Dennis’ possible criminality?  Well,


what it does demonstrate is what Eric has put his faith in: lawyers. 


Every attack I have seen made on Dennis by the power structure


was lead by lawyers, lawyers who couldn’t find any victims to help


them build their "cases."  In Seattle Dennis’ 400 heat pump


customers actually signed a petition to tell the Attorney General to


stop "protecting" them!  


          If Eric was a competent and complete investigator, he would


have dropped all his "is Dennis a fraud?" stuff from his web site


long ago.  Eric simply has no idea what he is writing about.  And I


know what I am talking about.  Eric acts like he is just an impartial


empiricist, but, as you will see soon, I believe he is far more of a


theorist than an empiricist.  In our e-mails I have a number of


times presented facts to him, and he would e-mail back that he


had a hard time believing the facts, because his beliefs and


theories told him otherwise.


          Eric has written time and again that he didn’t want to look


into the heat pump because he felt it wasn’t worth his time.  Well,


how on earth can you call Dennis a fraud when you aren’t willing


to look into about the only technology he has really sold for the


past fifteen years, and is literally half of his current public free


energy scheme?  Eric finally relented on that position and said he


would love to test one of the heat pumps, partly because he didn’t


want to rely on the mountain of testing documentation that had


been generated over the last twenty years, because it could all be


wrong.  


          And he talked about how hard it was to measure something


like a C.O.P.  And Eric says measuring energy systems is his


specialty.  Well, I have news for Eric, measuring the C.O.P. of the


heat pump is no big deal.  You only have to measure the water


flow rate through the heat exchangers, the rise in temperature and


the electrical draw on the compressor.  That is it.  I have seen that


test performed many times over the years, by professionals.  I


have done it myself a number of times, we even had systems


rigged with BTU and electric meters, where the whole


arrangement had a very low margin of potential error.  Several test


labs have tested the heat pump, people who do that sort of thing


professionally.  I have a hard time crediting Eric’s concerns. 


          But that is not to say that I don’t want to let Eric have the


opportunity to test a heat pump, which brings me to a problem that


is better classified in my "problems" section, but I will bring up


here.  As I stated earlier, a hundred companies came and went


regarding the LAMCO system, with hundreds of the systems being


installed by the people who bought them.  As those companies


across America sold five or twenty or fifty systems before going


out of business,  Dennis is the closest thing there has been to a


 "heart of the industry" for the last fifteen years.  And Dennis has


kept up with some of his customers from fifteen years ago, and


from time to time, when he has been riding high, another person


who used to sell or install the LAMCO system would come out of


the national woodwork and contact Dennis.  


          Back in 1988, just before the raid, an old LAMCO dealer


contacted us who was from Minnesota.  His name was Norm. 


Norm’s company sold and installed about fifty of the heat pumps


before going out of the LAMCO business.  Norm was still in the


HVAC business, and so he kept servicing those customers when


they would have the rare system problem, like a leak, or a failed


compressor, etc.  We actually sent a cameraman to Minnesota


and filmed a tour that Norm took through Minnesota in the winter


to some of his old customers.  They sure were a bunch of a happy


customers, including one of the system’s best references ever,


Glen Johnson from Hibbing Minnesota, whose letter from 1982


has been in many of Dennis’ reference packages over the years.


          That we found Norm was fortuitous, but it also highlights


one of the major problems we have encountered over the years. 


Norm was an HVAC man who kept in touch with his old customers. 


He was still in the business and was able to keep serving them


when the need arose.  Most of the 100 companies that came and


went from the LAMCO days just disappeared from the map, and


those customers were on their own.  So when a compressor failed


or a system got a leak, who were they gonna call, Ghostbusters? 


No, they ended up calling up a normal HVAC man, who came out


and scratched his head as he looked at that exotic piece of


equipment.  If he changed out a compressor, he often needed to


evacuate and recharge the system.  And if he had no training with


the LAMCO heat pump, it was guaranteed that he wouldn’t


evacuate it, charge it, or adjust it properly.  And then the system


wouldn’t work well at all, and just limp along, not saving nearly as


much as it used to do.  So the homeowner may have eventually


had the damn thing removed and gone back to good old natural


gas or something like that.  


          And each time Dennis would rebuild his company from


scratch, after a jail stint or having his company stolen, he would


encounter the skepticism about his heat pump all over, and those


dwindling references he had used for so many years would get


another flurry of calls from the "skeptical" and some people would


tire of the calls, and ask to be removed from the reference list.  In


Boston, as we were getting it going again, Dennis had to organize


a "reference" trip for all those new skeptics, to of all places,


Philadelphia, right in Eric Krieg’s back yard.  And I got to see all


those skeptics return from Philadelphia, beaming with new-found


faith in the system, talking to happy customer after customer.  One


of the Philadelphia customers even went so far as to say, "You


can take my car, you can take my furniture, you can even take my


wife, but you aren’t gonna get my LAMCO system, unless it’s over


my dead body."  The Philadelphia crowd were the ones who were


getting around a 100% savings on their heating bills.  


          And I don’t know if any of them are around today or not. 


What happens when they finally sell the house and move away? 


The new owners have no idea about those panels on their roof,


and if the system ever needs repair work, it’ll probably get botched


and eventually the system will get removed.  


          A funny story surrounds the system that was installed on a


Minneapolis restaurant many years ago.  That restaurant was the


one that Dennis uses all the time in his presentations.  It was the


one that got a C.O.P. of five in January.  Back in 1987/1988, as we


were beginning to fly high, one of those who got involved in the


Midwest took a trip to Minneapolis and looked up the restaurant. 


The restaurant had changed owners, and the men asked the new


owner what he thought of the LAMCO system on his building.  The


new owner said, "You mean those piece of junk panels on the side


of the building?  The piece of garbage doesn’t work.  It has never


worked that I have seen, you can take it away if you want.  I’ll sell


it to you, cheap."  The men then asked if they could take a look at


the system and see what shape it was in.  As they looked the


system over and the hot water system, they could see no other


heating system hooked up to the water heating system, and then


asked the owner how he was heating his water then.  And the new


owner just shrugged his shoulders, "I don’t know."  It didn’t


take them long to realize that the LAMCO system had been


working perfectly and providing all the restaurant’s hot water, and


the new owner didn’t even know it.  Those men did some testing of


the system and measured a C.O.P. of nine on that system, and it


wasn’t summer.


          Dennis’ goal for many years was to be able to build an


industry around that heat pump, so it would survive, and so the


heat pumps would not all eventually get removed because nobody


had the arcane knowledge anymore on how to fix them.  Of the


two thousand systems that have been installed over the last


generation, we literally have no idea how many are still


functioning, another tragedy brought about by the suppression


efforts of the Big Boys, and the corporate apathy demonstrated by


that heat pump plant manager so many years ago.  


          So when Eric says he needs to be able to see one working


before he stops his open fraud speculation on his web pages, he


is not exactly fighting the battle on the front it needs to be fought


on.  And at this time I don’t think Dennis is going to burn up the


relatively few active references he still has on the system to


please a man who publicly wonders whether Dennis is a fraud. 


Eric can do some real investigative work and find some systems to


test if he really wanted to, and I have told him where to look for


some of them.  Heck, he says he is contacted by ex-dealers of


Dennis’ all the time.  The materials they bought are full of


references, and some of them must still be active.  I’m sure Eric


the Skeptic could find some ex-dealer to fax him some of those


many references.  If Eric is an investigator worth his salt, he could


easily find out the truth of the matter about the heat pumps, and


drop his "Dennis is a fraud" musings.  


          Now, whether Dennis has "free electricity" is indeed open to


debate, and I express my skepticism about his heat pump married


to a hydraulic heat engine in my physics piece.  Now there is a


world of difference between "does he have free electricity?" and


 "is he a fraud?"  Eric’s black/white view of the issue is not only


uninformed, but amazingly naïve.  And this brings me to Eric the


Theorist versus Eric the empiricist.  That Dennis is alive at all


today amazes many of us who are close to him, and those who


know how the suppression syndrome works.  Eric on the other


hand has been steeping himself over the years with the writings of


the CSICOP crowd, avidly reading the works of people like Martin


Gardner, one of those in the CSICOP pantheon, right up there


with Carl Sagan. 


          In the world view of Eric, Dennis is likely the latest in a very


long line of free energy scammers and quacks that have paraded


through American society over the years.  Eric can barely imagine


the suppression efforts that have been directed at Dennis and


others over the years, and Eric puts great stock in the attacks of


the establishment, and studiously ignores the voluminous


documentation in books like The Alternative that very seriously


challenge the notion that there was anything legitimate in the


establishment’s repeated attacks against Dennis.  The


documentation is very persuasive evidence that Eric completely


ignores in his musings about Dennis.  


          Time after time I will e-mail Eric about the fact that CIA spies


were crawling all over an International Tesla society meeting in


Colorado (Which is something blatantly illegal, as the CIA is


expressly forbidden by law to do domestic spying.  And they


literally showed their badges at the conference when they were


asked to, as the law requires.), or the reception the Wright


Brother’s plane received for five years by the establishment, and


those kinds of facts, and telling him where to find the


documentation.  And Eric comes back with something like, "I find


that hard to believe."  In those instances it is Wade the Empiricist


versus Eric the Theorist.  I keep putting facts in front of Eric that


challenge his view of the establishment that he is such a proud


member of, and he keeps coming back with "I find that hard to


believe."  Eric takes pains to tell his audience that he was a proud


Eagle scout and is an avid church goer.  That is precisely Eric’s


problem.  He has done too much Boy scouting, church going, and


watching the Disney hour.  He has a very naïve view of how the


world works, and every time he comes back with "I find that hard to


believe," it is showing how he theorizes in the face of


uncomfortable data, not wanting to believe it.


          If Eric was the empiricist that he presents himself as on his


web page, he wouldn’t be saying something like "I had better be


able to test a free energy machine or else I have to conclude


Dennis is a fraud," and list on his web pages all the state fraud hot


lines.  Eric would simply say, "I want to test a free energy


machine" period.  If he was really the pure empiricist he presents


himself as, he wouldn’t keep theorizing aloud about if Dennis is a


fraud, particularly when he has absolutely no credible information


that Dennis might be one.  But of course he can point to Dennis’


stints behind bars as hard evidence, but my testimony and the


documentation in The Alternative are far more credible and


convincing than all the legal actions that have been directed at


Dennis over the years, and if Eric was really the empiricist that he


presents himself as, only a little true investigation would show him


beyond any reasonable doubt how fraudulent the legal attacks on


Dennis have been.  I mean every single one of them.  But again,


Eagle Scout Eric has a real hard time conceiving that there is any


corruption in our hallowed legal system.


          The bottom line is that I have been there as a witness, and


have done my homework and found out how the world works.  Eric


hasn’t yet been able to overcome all his Disney indoctrination. 


And many times now Eric has e-mailed me questions that show


me that he has yet to fully read my web pages, pages that are


being called masterpieces (if long-winded).  I have asked Eric at


least three times now if he knows who Bill the Hit Man is, and his


role in Dennis’ story, and I have yet to hear a word in response


from Eric.  Bill the Hit Man is a character Eric will have a hard time


believing exists, as his mere existence calls into question Eric’s


entire world view.  Well, I have been there seeing Bill’s handiwork


up close, and even seeing the trails he leaves here and there.  Bill


isn’t a product of my imagination, like some boogie man.  And I


have encountered more than one like him.  And Eric I’m sure has a


hard time believing that Mr. Deputy was making faces at me as I


was testifying, or that he threatened witnesses.  One day Eric is


going to wake up and figure out how the world works, and he can


cry on my shoulder.


          Eric has actually been gracious with me on the Internet,


even linking his page to mine.  And at times Eric seems even


willing to learn.  I will return the favor.  Here we are Eric.  And this


is the first link I have ever made, we’ll see if I did it right.





Link to Eric Krieg’s Home Page


  


          I’ll end this skeptic piece by mentioning a classic debunking


exercise by Eric’s buddy Tom Napier, which is on Eric’s Home


page.  Read again the excerpts from Daniel Drasin’s short course


for debunkers, and see for yourself how well Tom learned his


lessons.  From the title of Napier’s piece you can see his ridicule


and condescending attitude is fired up and ready to go.  And the


reader won’t be disappointed, Napier keeps up his ridicule and


condescension steady throughout his entire piece.  And he takes


aim early, calling Dennis scientifically illiterate.  I won’t make any


great claims regarding Dennis’ scientific literacy.  Dennis is a


promoter, and his grip on the science is often tenuous at best.  


          But, and this is a big but, he has had some very big


scientific and engineering heavyweights on his team in the past,


and is associated with a few today.  Dennis wasn’t making up his


stuff out of the thin air, he was repeating what other giant minds


had told him.  And Napier actually staked out a pretty impressive


claim to scientific illiteracy himself when he stated that power


plants were 60% efficient.  The right answer is around 35%, with


40% the highest I have ever seen claimed with conventional


technology today, and that major blunder by Napier took him


entirely out of the running as far as evaluating Dennis’


thermodynamic claims. 


           The Department of Energy states that about 30% of the


energy that goes into the boilers of the electric companies makes


it into the homes and businesses of America as electricity.  And


you can look it up.  A few percent goes to line losses, etc. 


General Electric says that they hope that innovations in metallurgy


and materials will eventually allow boiler temperatures of 4,000


degrees or so and get that mythical efficiency of 60%, but we are a


long way off, unless you consider stuff like hydraulic heat engines.


          And in keeping with Drasin’s teachings, Napier says that he


didn’t see Dennis demonstrate anything new or promising at the


Philadelphia show.  Again Napier demonstrated his mastery of the


debunker’s craft.  Dennis demonstrated the sublimation of


tungsten for the crowd, demonstrating one of the many anomalous


properties of Brown’s Gas, properties that have been


demonstrated many, many times over the last twenty years.  So


Napier demonstrated once again his total ignorance of what he


was observing.  But Napier was able to state with such authority


that he saw nothing new in Philadelphia.  And the extent of


Napier’s superior investigative and skeptical efforts appeared to


be limited to showing up to a free show in Philadelphia, then going


home and writing his masterpiece.   And he ended it all with the


obvious ending that was a foregone conclusion by merely reading


the title of his piece, that it sure looked like a scam to him.


          And Tom of course roundly ignored the amazing jack


hammer that makes little noise and virtually no vibration while


outperforming conventional jack hammers, and Dennis’ amazing


heat pump, which should bring up some profound questions to


Tom and Eric about how the real world works and why such


superior products are not on the market today.  But Tom had


important debunker work to do, and he couldn’t let little details like


that get in his way. 


          In Ginenthal’s book on Velikovsky and Sagan, Ginenthal


ended his preface by saying that even if Velikovsky was wrong


about all of his theories, he did not deserve the slanderous,


libelous and mean-spirited treatment that Carl Sagan and his


buddies heaped on him.  I have to conclude the same thing about


Eric Krieg’s efforts.  Does Dennis have a free electricity machine


up his sleeve?  I think so, but I am not entirely sure myself.  But


does that merit the treatment that he has received on Eric’s


pages?  Not in my opinion, and I know the situation about a


hundred times better than Eric does.  Eric, this is friendly advice,


stop your skeptical musings about Dennis, particularly the "is he a


crook?" wonderings until you really know what you are writing


about, because you don’t.  


          That is all I have to say about the "skeptics" for now.





                              Addendum #1


        


        This is being written on New Year’s Day, 1997, a little over


a week after I published this piece.  I have heard back from the


 "skeptical" crowd on this piece, and I am going to write about it.  It


should be very educational.  First, I am going to deal with Eric


Krieg.  Eric has been very civilized and gracious in his dealings


with me, with a minor chortle here and there.  My web page began


getting discussed in free energy news groups soon after I


published my pages due to my own advertising, but I have gotten


a fair number of responses from people who hit my pages through


Eric’s pages, so Eric does deserve some gratitude from me, and


he gets it.  Thank you, Eric.  


          Eric has also been out there fishing for critical responses to


my work, and I did get some from those efforts.  They weren’t


particularly strong or informed responses, but they were better


than nothing.  I have had more astute observations made by the


 "free energy" crowd than the "skeptical" crowd.  In fact the


responses by the "skeptical" crowd have been kind of a mixed


blessing, as now I read by inference that the "skeptical" crowd has


pretty much "debunked" my writings.  Not quite.  And I will get into


that a little here.  


          The first (and only) skeptic up to bat on my physics piece so


far made one astute observation.  He questioned the point at


which the high-pressure working fluid got introduced to the Fischer


engine, asking if at that point would the liquid flash into steam


before the valve closed, partially defeating the cycle?  I invited the


skeptic to obtain Fischer’s patent, of which I gave number in my


physics piece.  Fischer deals with that issue in his patent, and


Fischer engines have been built and run, and if that was an issue


in the early prototypes, I think it was overcome.  That was an


astute observation.  


          Then he launched into some unastute observations.  One of


which was he stated that my notion of entropy increasing when


temperature did was "patently false."  If you actually study


chemistry, there are tables listing of the entropies of substances. 


Diamond, for instance, has the lowest entropy of the known


substances.  And what that means is that for every unit of energy


you add to a diamond lattice, more of that energy translates to a


temperature gain than any other known substance, and less goes


towards to entropy, or motion, be it vibrational, rotational, or


translational.  And what that means is that the carbon atoms are


so tightly held in their lattice structure that they basically can’t


budge, which is also why diamond is the hardest substance known


to man.  At the atomic level, entropy is considered movement.  


          It is physics 101 that entropy increases as temperature


does.  In fact, several years ago, as I was plowing through


thermodynamics textbooks on my own, I tried to find the definition


of temperature, trying to get my hands around the concept.  It was


very frustrating.  I went through book after book, trying to find any


definition that would help me to understand the concept.  For all


the calculus and hard-to-decipher jargon that dominates most


thermodynamics textbooks, temperature was practically never


defined more than the "hotness" of the substance.  That sure


sounded scientific.  Book after book dealt with it that way.  Then I


finally found a book that actually defined temperature.  It said that


if you add energy to a substance, the energy which doesn’t go to


entropy goes to a rise in temperature, kind of backing into the


definition.  What it came down to in all those textbooks, was "put


your hand on it, and you can feel it."  I suppose that is the ultimate


empirical way to describe it, but it kind of left me wanting.  


          Anyway, the textbooks defined temperature that way, and


temperature is obviously related to entropy in a direct relationship,


something my critic appeared to say was "patently false."  And


maybe I misunderstood his criticism.  But then I soon saw a


comment that showed me the slipshod nature of his critique, and


betrayed an attitude that Daniel Drasin’s skeptic class taught to


aspiring skeptics so well.  The skeptic said that in my Carnot class


I had reversed my heat sinks in my equations, and my numbers


came up with negative C.O.P.’s!  My heart skipped a beat when I


read that, thinking that I had made a clerical error in my


presentation.  But I went back to my physics page and saw that I


had indeed made my equations correctly, and the skeptic was


guilty of a slipshod critique of my work.  And though I could only


read the text, I could almost feel the chortling coming through


cyberspace as the skeptic made his cute remark about my


negative C.O.P.’s.  Skeptics love to chortle, in my experience, and


that was one case where one was directed at my work, totally in


error.  So I stopped the dialogue.  


          To date, that is the only critique made by the professional


skeptics of my physics piece, one that failed to make me revise


any of my ideas or what I wrote.  But now I read that Dennis has


been debunked "forwards and backwards."  As I stated earlier, the


more thoughtful responses to my work have come from the "free


energy" crowd, and my physics work is holding up nicely, so far. 


Not bad for a CPA.  And I am in the process of fishing for other


scientific responses out there.  I am sure I don’t know it all in this


area, but out of necessity have made my own investigations on my


own.  I would love to have an actual expert, one that actually


knows what he or she is talking about (many don’t), write a piece


that puts mine to shame.  Maybe someday I can coax one out of


somebody.  We’ll see.


          And then I heard quickly from a skeptic regarding this


 "skeptic" piece.  And I will respond to it here.  I will say right off


that I have had not one response from any skeptic out there,


including Eric, indicating that any of them have read my work any


further than my physics and skeptic pieces.  And "skeptical" is


supposed to mean that it leads to investigation.  I have this to say


about the "skeptics" I have seen so far in relation to Dennis Lee: I


have witnessed virtually no actual investigation of him or his work


by any of the skeptics, though they represent that Dennis has


been thoroughly debunked by their efforts.  Nothing could be


further from the truth, especially in Eric’s case, Dennis’ most vocal


skeptic.  


          But before I get back to Eric, let me deal first with the


skeptic’s response to my skeptical piece.  First off, let me say that


the response was fairly well-informed, seemingly sincere, and


made some very good points, and I stand corrected in a few areas. 


I asked the question about Gray and what happened to him.  I got


back that he was a scam that fled town.  Well, maybe he was, I


don’t know.  But I have heard more than one researcher wonder


what happened to Gray.  I still don’t know and may look into him


more.  But Eric’s response to that conjecture was that Gray was


apparently covered in "Suppressed Inventions and Discoveries,"


which made it seem that the book was likely a scan of the tabloids. 


Well, the fact of the matter is that Gray is not mentioned in that


book, a book that has had a great depth of research that has gone


into it.  But Eric seemed to seize on the idea that it might be a


shoddy work and seemed to be looking for a reason to dismiss it


without ever reading it.  That is a typical attitude of the "skeptics"


and one of Drasin’s lessons.   And maybe after reading this Eric


will actually get out of his armchair and even get the book


someday.  


          The skeptic also said that I wasn’t being fair by not


mentioning Eric’s Christian beliefs, which is an anomaly of the


skeptics.  That skeptic was right, at least about the anomaly part,


but I did mention Eric’s Christianity.  Almost all "skeptics"


subscribe to the dogma of materialism, believing with all their


heart that the soul is an imaginative construct of primitive people


who feared death.  So Eric does get some points in my book for


not believing that he is an accident of chemistry and the Big Bang. 


And that is likely why he is one of the more civil debunkers.  


          And the skeptic made a couple of other minor points, like


the Mexico City UFO flap was not really that spectacular, and the


true believers even think so.  Well, I have seen some of the


footage, and it didn’t look like nothing, but I will admit that I haven’t


looked into the Mexico City event much, and maybe I shouldn’t


have mentioned it until I had looked into it more thoroughly.  Minor


point scored by the skeptic.  Thank you for your observations.  


          But then there were many observations that I strongly


disagreed with, and some cases where the skeptic apparently did


not understand my point, and I will get into a few of them here. 


Let me say that the response from the skeptic was very detailed,


too detailed to respond to everything here, and if there is an


important point or two that the skeptics think I have overlooked, I


will gladly go into it in more detail, maybe even in this page, but I


don’t want to bore my readers too much in my an ad infinitum


dialogue.  


          The skeptics correctly guessed that I was writing about the


Mars and astrology flap that rocked CSICOP about twenty years


ago, so they get some points for doing their homework, and


admitted that CSICOP erred.  But then I got back that astrology is


still bogus.  Well, I don’t entirely agree.  And CSICOP did more


than just error, they betrayed their true feathers with that scandal. 


That scandal should have closed their doors, but it didn’t.  There


were apparently other scandals percolating under the surface as


the Mars scandal unrolled, but they were apparently covered up in


a good case of damage control.  The scandal just took CSICOP


out of the business of doing any real empirical work of their own,


but just "debunking" the work of others.


          The skeptic actually did ask me for more on Carl Sagan’s


fraudulent debunking efforts.  My response is to read my web


page, particularly the "science and medicine" section of it.  After


years of looking into Sagan’s efforts, I feel very justified by calling


him a fraudulent debunker, even though he is now dead.  All my


writings on him were made before he died.  If Sagan is a real man


 (And yes, he survived death, something he likely doesn’t realize


yet.  I do say my prayers for him.), he will someday come to realize


all the harm he caused with all his dishonest efforts, and he will


someday, in another life, try to make up for it, probably by battling


the "skeptics" himself, and getting unfairly debunked a few times,


in Sagan’s mud-slinging fashion, to see how it feels.                


          One of the points the skeptic made was that I said skeptics


weren’t supposed to have beliefs.  He said that was impossible


and showed I misunderstood "skepticism."  Well, maybe I


misunderstand the skeptics, or haven’t defined them the way the


skeptic would have liked me to, but I stand by my statement.  True


skepticism, not what is practiced by the "skeptical" crowd, has the


questioning of beliefs its primary valid feature.  Every true


revolution in thought, or "paradigm shift" as coined by Kuhn, has


at its base a rejection of the premises the then intellectual edifice


was built on.  And I do know what I am talking about, as I have had


the great privilege to know some of the great minds of the


twentieth century, Victor Fischer and Mr. Researcher among them,


and they have done some paradigm shifting of their own,


revolutionizing whole fields of thought.  


          And what the paradigm shifters all have in common is


questioning the sacred beliefs the then current intellectual edifice


was built on.  Fischer said that where Carnot went wrong was the


 "assumption" of an ideal gas in his work, and thermodynamics


marched off in the wrong direction almost two hundred years ago,


and liquid heat engines have been ignored ever since, not even


seen as a possibility in the halls of orthodoxy.  


          If you take a peek a Newton’s Principia, you will find that he


makes three assumptions in the beginning of his work that he


builds everything on.  Those assumptions were also what two


hundred years of physics were also built on.  Two of those


assumptions were the assumptions of absolute time and absolute


space.  Two hundred years later, as physicists had been wrestling


with the results of the Michelson-Morley experiment of 1887 for a


generation, an experimental result that failed to find any "ether


drag," along came a pup from the Swiss patent office who


eventually posited two theories, one rejecting Newton’s


 "assumption" of absolute time, and the other rejecting Newton’s


 "assumption" of absolute space.  And the world of physics was


changed forever by that lowly patent clerk named Einstein and his


theories of relativity.  So I stand by my words.  


          Yes, nobody can have no beliefs (that I have yet seen), but


challenging the sacred beliefs that no longer get questioned is


how the paradigms get shifted.  And the dogmatic beliefs of the


skeptical crowd are: materialism (the material world is all that


exists), objectivity (reality is out there, not between your ears), and


your consciousness is nothing but an accident of chemistry. 


Those are the cherished beliefs, and nearly the whole "skeptical"


movement, from what I have seen, has been increasingly


desperate to defend those sacred beliefs from the increasing, yet


subtle, evidence that those sacred beliefs may have to be


discarded.  


          So the skeptics prate on about their "investigative" efforts,


and how there is nothing there to find when they do investigate


 (Some are more honest than that and say they don’t know, like


Susan Blackmore, yet she has been the exception and not the rule


in my investigation of the skeptical movement, Carl Sagan being


one spectacular example of a debunker showing his true


feathers.), but like in the case of Dennis and my web pages, the


 "investigations" are very weak at best.


          And that brings me to one of the skeptic’s comments.  When


I wrote about James Oberg’s debunking of the NASA footage of an


apparently nimble UFO avoiding a ground based shot aimed at it,


the skeptic wrote me (more than once) that I seemed to take


exception to a mundane attempt to explain the event, and


that I was being as unfair as the fraudulent debunkers were.  I


have a real problem with that, and that skeptic has apparently


never seen the footage.  I have little problem with Oberg’s


improbable explanation of the turns that the "ice crystals" made,


but for his "mundane" explanation to entirely ignore the


spectacular "shot" obviously ripping through the atmosphere right


where the ice crystal had made its dramatic turns a few instants


before was the kind of "debunking" I have seen a little too often.  


          Make your "mundane" explanations if you want to, but don’t


do it by ignoring the most spectacular part of the footage.  And by


the way, independent researchers (Not on NASA’s payroll like


Oberg is, and not a member of the very suspect CSICOP like


Oberg is.) have now concluded that the "shot" came ripping


through the atmosphere right over the super-secret U.S. military


base at Pine Gap in Australia, which should raise some very


profound questions, questions that the professional skeptic group


apparently cannot fathom, particularly as most of them in America


apparently work for the military-industrial complex, either openly or


clandestinely, either practicing "honest" debunking, or blatantly


dishonest debunking like Sagan regularly engaged in.


          And I’ll finish with the response to the skeptic by writing


about the one part that I was sure would rile up the skeptics, and it


did.  I likened the Holocaust Deniers to the professional skeptics. 


I am sure I will get many angry e-mails on that in the future.  But I


don’t think the skeptic got my point.  He seemed to think I was


saying that the professional skeptic crowd were Holocaust Deniers


or approved of them.  That was anything but my point.  My point


was that the Holocaust Deniers have lifted the professional skeptic


tactics to make their nauseating "theories."  Again, the Holocaust


Deniers are united on the point that all the testimony of those who


survived the death camps can be dismissed as being anecdotal


and the product of a feverish imagination that made them bigger


victims than they were.  They were all imagining the horrible


treatment they suffered at the hands of the Nazis.  The Jews, in


the view of the Holocaust Deniers, were just treated like any other


prisoners of war, and interned in the camps because the Nazis


properly saw them as dangerous, subversive elements of


European society, and the Nazi’s treated them no differently than


the other subversive elements.  


          In my web pages I tell the readers that they can get a few


issues of The Spotlight and get ahold of the Holocaust Denier


material, like I have.  I have actually argued with Holocaust


Deniers, one a close personal relative.  Oh, what a disheartening


task that is.  Another linchpin in the Holocaust Denier arguments


is that there is little physical evidence that there were actually gas


chambers, and that Zyklon B was actually an insecticide that was


used for delousing the Jews, not to kill them.  Well, those tactics


are literally lifted right out of the professional skeptic canon.  And


that was my point.  How must it feel to be a Holocaust survivor and


hear the Holocaust Denier crowd dismiss your experiences as the


product of your imagination.  Oh, the pain that must cause.  I can


barely imagine what that feels like.  Well, actually I have a very


good idea what that feels like, and here I will segue to Eric Krieg


and his efforts to "debunk" Dennis. 


          The Holocaust Deniers pull pop psychology out of their hats


to dismiss the testimony of the Holocaust survivors as "anecdotal." 


The charm of that angle is that human testimony is practically the


only evidence admissible in a court of law.  Even physical


evidence cannot be admitted into evidence unless it is


accompanied by the testimony of the person who first got their


hands on the evidence, or the evidence is disregarded as being


 "tainted."  But the Holocaust Deniers dismiss the gut-wrenching


testimony of the Holocaust Survivors as being largely imagined. 


In the world of the Holocaust Denier, sure the Jews suffered, but


not because the Nazis intended it.  The Allies cut the supply lines


and those stacks of bodies we have all seen in those photos taken


at the end of World War II were more the result of the Allies


cutting the supply lines than it was any evil intent by those poor,


beleaguered Nazis.  And like all propaganda and disinformation


efforts, there is a grain of truth in those claims.  Just a grain


though, enough to plant doubt in people’s heads if they read the


work of the Holocaust Deniers.  


         So the Holocaust Deniers dismiss the testimony of the


Holocaust Survivors as the product of their imaginations.  They


weren’t really victims, but fantasized that they were, the Nazis


were just doing their jobs, and war is hell.  Well, guess what?  Eric


Krieg pulls the identical pop psychological trick out of his hat to


dismiss my testimony about what I saw in my ride with Dennis. 


Apparently watching with my own eyes the corruption I


encountered was all in my head.  When Mr. Deputy made faces at


me and chortled as I was testifying (also witnessed by my future


wife and others), or when three people saw the deputies engaging


in theft and espionage before their very eyes, that is all in our


minds.  Eric is not a Holocaust Denier, he is a Corruption Denier. 


Every time I have given him eyewitness testimony of the CIA


clandestinely attending an International Tesla conference, or what


I saw with my own eyes, he just can’t believe it.  Eric the Theorist,


hard at work, ignoring evidence.  


          If Eric’s Corruption Denial activities were merely identical to


the Holocaust Deniers’ in their dismissal of the testimony of the


victims, that would be one thing, but Eric takes it even further.  I


am a victim, that he doesn’t doubt.  But I apparently am a victim, of


Dennis (!), but I am currently in denial that I am.  I am fantasizing


about the suppression efforts that were directed at our venture,


and the real crook is Dennis.  And Eric says that that


psychological phenomenon also applies to all the biggest "victims"


of Dennis.  So goes the theory of Eric, we all invested so much


with Dennis, that we can’t admit to ourselves that we have been


taken by the con man of the century.  Whew!  I do have an idea


how the Holocaust survivors feel when they hear the Holocaust


Deniers dismiss their testimony as "anecdotal."  


          And Eric even good-naturedly writes he knows I think I lived


through the suppression efforts, but it is likely all in my mind, so


my testimony is suspect.  Can any of you readers out there


imagine how that makes me feel?  And Eric, who apparently has


read of that psychological phenomena in the work of the


professional debunkers, has decided that my testimony is not


worth reading, tainted as it is by my fantasy of denial, because he


thinks that Bill the Hit Man is Bill Clinton!  What kind of


investigator is that?  I’ll tell you what kind it is: no kind of


investigator at all.  He can’t even be bothered to read the


testimony of the man who saw Dennis the closest for years, even


when it comes to him free through cyberspace.  And Eric has


apparently been studying Drasin’s course.  Here is an excerpt of it


that I didn’t put in previously.  "If somebody claims to have been


impacted emotionally by [an] experience, point out that strong


emotions can alter perceptions.  Therefore, the claimant’s


recollections must be entirely untrustworthy."   


          And there is an agenda to the denier activities.  The


Holocaust Deniers are trying to rehabilitate the image of Uncle


Adolf, and again make the world safe for fascism, racism and Anti-


Semitism.  The Corruption Deniers (About 99% of the Professional


Skeptic activities I have seen in regard to people getting


hammered by the power structure fall under that category.) as a


group, cannot seem to fathom corruption. Or if they acknowledge


events like Watergate, Iran-Contra or the very peculiar events


attending the JFK assassination and its investigations, those


phenomena of course are never a part of the case they are


debunking.


           And here I will insert the observation of a friend to this


originally published piece.  He is a professional black man who


has been married to a professional white woman for over thirty


years, and they have professional, mixed-race children.  And here


is his observation..





           "On the subject of "skepticism" regarding Dennis, may I


offer a personal observation that you may find relevant?  Down


through the years, I have experienced racial discrimination. 


Because I never have lived in a segregated or single-race setting,


and never will, it was not unusual for me to share some of those


experiences with friends and acquaintances.  I was well into my


40s before I realized that some people are perfectly willing to


admit or allow that racism exists, but find 100 reasons why MY


specific experience had some cause other than racism.  Either I


was not qualified enough, or not old enough, or not young enough,


or not educated enough, or not experienced enough or simply did


not understand the circumstances.  Racism never was the culprit.


Never.


           Those people who attack Dennis sound quite similar. 


Whatever has happened to Dennis, just as whatever has


happened to me, must be some fault of my own, or there are


factors that Dennis and I just do not understand.


           I have a label for "my" folks.  You will have to find one for


Dennis'.  My solution has been to use their lack of understanding


of who I have become as a person, because of these experiences,


as a yardstick to how much I can trust them.  None has survived


as a friend.  You seem to have arrived at a similar decision, which


I applaud.  They are not worth your time to debate.  My favorite


Latin phrase applies here.  Non illigetimi carborundum, sometimes


iterated as illegitimi non carborundum est.  Loose translation?  


"Don't let the bastards grind you down."  





          And are their frauds in the world?  Of course.  Are there


really scams out there?  Yes.  I actually go into some of them on


my pages.  But the really huge, breathtaking frauds and scams are


the ones perpetrated by the power structure, like fluoridation,


orthodox cancer therapy (cut, nuke, poison), 25 MPG, and we are


alone in the Universe.  The huge frauds committed by the rich and


powerful are rarely even hinted at by the professional skeptic


crowd.  The "Skeptic" crowd is practicing what is called reality


control, defending the scientistic world view, very similar to the


activities of the Holy Office of the Inquisition of so long ago (An


office finally disbanded very recently, in my lifetime.). Scientism is


a religion in itself.  With anomalies like Eric aside, Scientism is the


faith that the "scientific method" is the only valid path to


knowledge, and will come up with every answer worth knowing. 


Too bad Einstein, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, Plank, De Broglie,


Eddington, Pauli, Jeans and Bohr (The prophets of modern


physics.) didn’t feel that way.  And I have enumerated the skeptics’


dogmas earlier.  


          So while Eric apparently cannot even be bothered to read


my web pages (Oh yes, I am long-winded, but nobody has yet told


me that I was wasting their time.) he calls for the government’s


side of the story on Dennis.  To Eric’s credit, he apparently made


an attempt to get Dennis’ book, The Alternative.  He contacted


them one day, asking them to give him a free copy of the book,


because he was an "investigator."  I’ll tell you what, I have done


more real investigating that it appears Eric has ever done or will


do, and I have never asked somebody to give me free material


because I was an investigator.  And Eric is doing it in an out and


out effort to debunk those he is investigating.  And for Eric to call


for the government’s side of the story shows me that he never did


cough up that huge sum of $15 and got The Alternative, or he


never read it, because the government’s side of the story is


documented very well in The Alternative.  


          Is Dennis a fast-talking promoter?  Yes.  That is something


that I have written about on my web pages more than once.  That


doesn’t mean that he is dishonest, it means that he knows it is the


only thing that works, at least in our case.  But of course I could be


in denial about that.  A number of Dennis’ books I am not


impressed with as far as it convincing the casual observer of what


he is all about, and the technology he is promoting, which is the


biggest reason that I have written this web page, to give the


technology and Dennis’ efforts more credibility.  Because they


deserve all the objective credibility they can get.  And I know the


situation at least a hundred times better than Eric Krieg does, but


Eric theorizes that I am in denial, without ever having read my


testimony, it appears.


          But Eric wants to hear the government’s side of things. 


Well, that is a credible request, so I will summarize it here, backed


up by all the documentation in The Alternative, and documentation


and other evidence that didn’t make it into the book.  And some of


it you will have to take my word on for now (Which I suppose can


be dismissed because I am a liar too.).  


          The government vendetta against Dennis began in Seattle,


so that is where I will begin the trail of documentation and other


evidence that supports the position of the government.  This won’t


be as dry as Eric would like it, because I will be doing a little


interpolation of the evidence here and there, not enough for any


credible investigator to dismiss out of hand.  For any true


investigator, this should be a place to begin the investigation, not


end it.


          Just at about the time Dennis had sold 1,000 systems of


The Alternative in the Seattle area, on June 5th, 1985 there was


an article in a Seattle newspaper that hatcheted Dennis’ company. 


Up until that time, bankers had treated Dennis like the had the


plague, et cetera.  I write about that phenomenon in the other


Dennis sections of my web page.  A few months earlier, when the


representative for the bank had told Dennis informally that the


bank had been warned off of Dennis, Dennis had wondered who


could have been saying those things about him.  


          June 5th was also just about the time that Mr. Financier


committed millions of dollars to Dennis after his intensive checking


of The Alternative’s performance.  Eric’s position on the testimony


of Mr. Financier is that it is "tainted" because Mr. Financier


ultimately lost millions of dollars and is still in denial that he is a


victim.  Just how Mr. Financier was in denial when he did


prodigious testing of the equipment, flying all over the country,


talking to customers, having experts test systems, looking at all


the data, before he committed millions of dollars to financing the


systems is something that has seemingly escaped the


psychological theories of Eric so far.  


          In that article of June 5th was some very important


information that would show how the land laid and why the


government began its investigation of Dennis and Conserve.  The


article intimated that Dennis’ company was a scam, that the


equipment didn’t work, and that it wouldn’t qualify for the


renewable energy tax credit.  That was being quoted right out of


the mouth of a local electric company spokesman.  The


spokesman furthermore stated that the electric company was


calling for the Attorney General’s office to investigate all


Washington "solar" companies, particularly one as obviously


fraudulent as Dennis’ was.  


          The spokesman further stated that Conserve had repeatedly


been asked by the electric companies for information on The


Alternative, and was denied the information every time.  That


article was the first official indication on record where the electric


companies accused Dennis of being a fraud, and the first


indication that the government might soon be investigating Dennis. 


Just what were the facts with respect to what the electric company


spokesman was saying?  To put it kindly, a number of the things


the electric company spokesman stated were out and out lies.  


          First of all, The Alternative always qualified for the federal


Renewable Energy Tax Credit.  Of about two thousand of the


systems installed during the reign of the tax credit, I don’t think


there was one case of the equipment not qualifying.  In fact, in


every contract Dennis’ companies ever made for selling The


Alternative, Dennis’ companies guaranteed that the system would


qualify for the credit, or the company would pay the credit directly


to the customer.  And that is a little story in itself.  


          When the Renewable Energy Tax Credit was signed into


law, it specifically applied to technology that took advantage of


renewable energy sources.  Well, almost all.  While windmills and


direct solar radiant collection devices specifically qualified for the


credit.  Heat pumps specifically did not.  And there are a few


reasons for that, not all good ones, by the way.  For starters, there


was already a heat pump industry at that time, and the credit was


supposedly designed to encourage new technology development,


not give a tax bonanza to an already existing industry.  So heat


pumps were specifically excluded, even though in retrospect they


saved more energy from a renewable source than all those "solar"


systems did, except for, of course, The Alternative, the king of


them all.


          But the LAMCO device and The Alternative qualified


because they were more than a heat pump.  In fact, in those days,


it was pretty much forbidden to call the LAMCO device or The


Alternative a heat pump, and the term "solar refrigeration" was


dreamed up to try keeping The Alternative from getting lumped in


with conventional heat pumps.  And that worked, along with other


things.  


          Before the credit expired in 1985 Dennis actually testified at


congressional and IRS hearings regarding The Alternative, to


make sure the system qualified.  That system that I have


mentioned earlier in Minneapolis was used in those hearings.  A


large corporation tested that system for months, with Btu and


electric meters.  Their data showed that the system got a C.O.P. of


a little over five in January, 1983 and a little under five in


February.  The actual weather data for Minneapolis was submitted


into evidence.  February was a warmer month than January, but it


was windier in January.  The argument was that the wind made


the performance improve, as it increased the heat exchange with


the environment, something obviously true, and we all know about


the "solar gain" the system gets when the sun hits the panels.  The


system qualified, and Dennis was even appointed to a committee


of one by the government regarding renewable energy tax credits.  


          One thing that Dennis had continually complained about


was that there was no performance criteria for the renewable


energy tax credit, leading to widespread fraud in the solar


industry.  He called for some performance criteria so the taxpayers


wouldn’t get bilked.  It is extremely ironic that Dennis has been so


viciously attacked over the years of being a fraud, but if you find


out how the machinery of our surreal society operates, it is no big


surprise.  Dennis tends to believe that the lack of performance


criteria may have been by design all along, in a Machiavellian plot


by the Big Boys to encourage real fraud to discredit the entire


alternative energy field.  I don’t know about that, but such a theory


does fit the facts.            


          The newspaper noted that even though there had been no


complaints from the public, the electric company spokesman was


calling for an Attorney General’s investigation of Conserve and all


solar companies in Washington.  Another Big Lie that the


spokesman said was that they had been repeatedly asking


Conserve for information and were rebuffed each time.  That was


the first time Dennis had known of their requests.  In fact the


opposite was true.  Dennis had tried getting the electric companies


interested in his technology, but they uniformly expressed no


interest in it, so he eventually went out and did it himself.  Dennis


had even gone so far as to rig up a portable unit and drive to an


electric company parking lot to have them test it right there, and


nobody would deign to come out of the building to test it.


          What that article did do for Dennis, besides libel him, was


give Dennis an idea as to who was behind the strange, frightened


reactions that he was getting from the Seattle banks, and wasn’t it


strange that the article appeared just when Mr. Financier was


about to commit millions of dollars to finance the systems, and


Dennis had sold 1,000 of them in a few short months?


          Shortly after that, people (including customers) began


contacting the company, saying that they had been contacted by


the Attorney General’s office.  And then customers began


canceling their contracts right and left.  When asked why they


were canceling, they told why.  As I go into in other parts of my


web page, at that time the WPPSS fiasco was the headline on the


news almost every night, and the electric companies were


constantly running full page ads, encouraging conservation.  And


Dennis’ customers were naturally ringing up the new electric


company conservation department phones, and telling those good


people at the electric company that they had contracted to get The


Alternative, and did the electric company think The Alternative was


a good conservation idea?  


           God bless the naïve Americans who think that Big Business


 (particularly monopolies like the electric companies) is their best


friend, selflessly looking out for John Q. Public’s  interest.  The


answer from those electric company representatives was a


collective hysterical shriek that the company was a scam and was


being investigated by the Attorney General’s office!  Imagine that.  


         At that time, all Dennis knew was that an electric company


spokesman had publicly called for the Attorney General’s office to


investigate him, and now all the electric companies were telling


Dennis’ customers and potential customers that the company was


a scam and was being investigated by the Attorney General’s


office.  So what did that crook Dennis do next?  He called the


Attorney General’s office, and got ahold of the investigator that the


people said they were contacted by.  He said, "I heard that you


were investigating my company, and I want to know why."  The


investigator feigned complete ignorance, and said they weren’t


engaging in an investigation.  And the investigator said, "If there


was an investigation, why would you be calling me?"  And Dennis


said, "So I could invite you to some public events we have


scheduled, so you can see how we are interacting with the public." 


Isn’t this sure shaping up like Dennis the Incorrigible Crook? 


          Dennis even called a meeting where every electric company


in the Northwest was invited to a meeting where Dennis would lay


out his plans and try to get the electric companies to not see him


as a threat, but an ally in the conservation efforts their full page


ads said they were so desperately seeking.  That meeting was


scheduled for August 15th.  At about the time Dennis called that


meeting, Bill the Hit Man showed up at the company, begging


Dennis to hire him to act as a public relations man with the electric


companies, telling Dennis that he was at that time a "consultant" to


the local electric companies.  Dennis’ organization tried very hard


to make the meeting attended by the electric company


representatives, and in fact every electric company was finally


badgered enough that they all agreed to send a representative to


the meeting.  


          On August 15th the meeting was held and videotaped.  I


have seen the tape.  The only attendee from the electric


companies was a low-level employee from one electric company,


who attended because he was a personal friend of Mr. Engineer’s. 


The other attendees were Bill the Hit Man, in about the only official


duty he ever performed for the company in his ten week tenure (I


erred earlier when I said it was six weeks, it was ten.), and two


people who said they were from the University of Washington and


had heard about the meeting, and some solar company


representatives getting a free lunch, the same people who were


joining in a chorus with the electric companies in calling Dennis a


scam.  It turned out that the two "college students" were actually


investigators for the Attorney General’s office, a pair that Dennis


would later call Hansel and Gretel, as the investigators would later


display the maturity of ten year olds as they couldn’t keep from


giggling whenever they were around Dennis, the all-knowing kind


of giggle.  


          But they were not the hatchet people, they were like Mr.


Investigator, that saint from Ventura who told Mr. Researcher that


he didn’t care if those he prosecuted were innocent or guilty, that


his job was to get convictions, and that he would engage in any


amount of lying necessary to gain that conviction.  What a servant


of the public interest!


          The hatchet person was a little further up the rungs of the


Attorney General’s office.  And here I will begin naming a few


names, so if anybody who can actually call themselves an


investigator (Eric is far from qualifying yet.), can start their own


investigations.  The hatchet person was one Betsy Hollingsworth. 


That would be the highest-profile case of her career, one she


probably shudders at remembering, because it eventually cost her


her job. 


          The Attorney General’s office eventually acknowledged that


they were carrying on an investigation of Dennis’ company.  They


came on at first like there was really nothing to worry about, that


there were just a few minor things to clear up.  While the electric


companies were calling Dennis a crook in hysterical shrieks, when


Dennis faced the actual Attorney General’s investigators, the


investigators themselves said that there were only one or two


minor items to clear up, nothing to get concerned about.  Dennis


was called in by Betsy to give a deposition in September.  At the


deposition it became obvious to Dennis that they were filling up


their slings with mud.  


          Dennis then told Betsy what a media attack on the company


would do: make sure the systems wouldn’t get installed by


December 31 when the tax credit expired, the company would then


collapse, and then there really would be some victims.  Dennis


made it very clear that the company was very vulnerable to a


media attack at that time, and Dennis wanted to cooperate with the


investigation in every way that he could.  Betsy assured Dennis


that there were just a few little things to change in the way the


company operated, then everything would be fine.  


          At another meeting with Betsy in October, while she was just


 "tying up some loose ends," Dennis’ lawyer told Betsy that Dennis


was planning a business trip to Indiana to discuss building a


factory in Fort Wayne, but if there was a scandal brewing or


anything that might affect her investigation, just "Say the word,


Betsy, and Dennis will not go on his trip and continue cooperating


with this investigation."  And Betsy said that she had no intentions


of suing the company, but just wanted to negotiate the matter, and


it could wait until the business trip was over.  In Indiana the


Governor’s office of Economic Development was making an


amazingly generous offer to have the factory in Seattle (Where


Dennis was busily manufacturing four hundred systems for his


customers.) relocate to Fort Wayne.


          Towards the end of Dennis’ stay in Indiana, which was


going exceedingly well, his contact in Indiana approached him in a


panic.  "What’s going on in Washington?  Indiana’s Attorney


General has been contacted by the Washington State Attorney


General, and our office is ceasing all negotiations."  The man said


 "Man, you’ve been sued there, and it’s in all the papers."  That is


how honorable Betsy was.  In fact it was far more cowardly and


dishonest than that.  Alison showed up to the factory/office one


morning, and the parking lot was crawling with camera crews and


reporters.  On October 9th, 1985, the company was splashed all


over the news in Seattle.  A reporter asked Alison if she had a


comment on the lawsuit the Attorney General’s office had filed


against the company, and Alison said "What lawsuit?"  


          That wasn’t a case of a lawsuit being filed, and then the


reporters picking up on it and reporting it.  Betsy and her gangster


buddies contacted the Attorney General’s office in Indiana to


queer that deal, and sicked all the media on the company, and


Dennis and Alison were the last to know!  And when Dennis got


back to town, it turned out that the lawsuit hadn’t even been filed


yet!  In an unbelievable display of bad faith and corruption, Betsy


did just the thing Dennis had warned would hurt the company the


most, had orchestrated it when Dennis was out of town, had called


the media vultures down on the company, and she hadn’t even


filed the lawsuit.  


          The stock of Conserve went from two dollars a share to


twenty-five cents overnight.  Betsy’s move cost Dennis over $40


million in net worth overnight.  I got to see that phenomenon first


hand when I worked for that medical lab that I write about in the


Ralph Hovnanian Quotations section.  A media attack can be


much more effective than an actual legal attack, but hand in hand


is the handiest way to destroy a business.  Betsy knew exactly


what she was doing, and obviously was just taking orders from her


superiors.


          And then Bill the Hit Man made his move.  I write much more


about Bill in the "Short Course on Dennis" section.  For Bill’s ten


week tenure at the company, he didn’t do one productive thing for


the company, like smooth things between Conserve and the


electric companies, like he solicited to the company.  Instead he


used all his dark arts of persuasion to try befriending all the key


people in the company.  As the parking lot was filling up with


camera crews and reporters, Bill went around to all the employees


he could talk to, and tried inciting mutiny.  He took off his mask. 


What Bill was telling everybody that if the employees mutinied,


they could kick Dennis out of his own company, and then Bill could


run it, with the electric companies’ blessings.  


          Dennis took a long, dark flight home from Indiana.  He felt a


tremendous act of betrayal by the "guardians of the public interest"


and began to realize just how the land laid in Seattle.  On the


plane flight back he hastily wrote a reply to what Betsy and her


cronies had done.  He ran a full page ad in the Seattle Times,


where he got lucky.  It somehow got through the editing


 (censoring) process of the Seattle Times and ran in the paper on


Friday, October 18th, 1985.  It is reproduced in the book The


Alternative, Exhibit 1C.  If you read it, you will see that Dennis had


his grand, over-the-top style way back then.  It is not a timid ad. 


You might read it and call it a diatribe of the first order.  I’ll tell you


the impact it had in the world: the Attorney General’s phones were


ringing off the hook, and they got bags full of mail.  They were


inundated with public protest about what they had done to Dennis’


company.  I would eventually hear that the Attorney General


himself turned several shades of crimson while reading it. 


Cowards are dismayed when their victims fight back, and it was no


exception there.


          And one reason that Betsy had not yet filed the lawsuit 


was that it was complete legal garbage.  It was a civil suit that had


over 40 counts in it, and the mud and lies were thrown far and


wide.  Many of the "charges" were manufactured out the thin


air.  One of the innumerable, groundless charges was that there


was no factory where The Alternative was being built.  When the


company was finally served the lawsuit, guess where they were


served it?  At the factory where they were building The Alternative. 


Until you have actually lived through such events, it can be hard to


believe that they occur.  I fortunately missed most of the Seattle


fireworks, but I got to see a much more escalated version of it in


Ventura a few years later.


          And here I will get into what the company was actually


doing, so you can see the true nature of the attack on the


company.  I go into the whole dynamic more fully in other parts of


the web page, but here I provide new details.  Dennis was


stacking up contracts, trying to find a financier and manufacturer


for them.  That was the Seattle strategy.  


          The sales strategy had a few brilliant angles, the kind


Dennis could practically never get a businessman to comprehend. 


The first was that the potential customer would get a telemarketing


call, asking about how big their energy bills were, did they own


their home, and was their federal income tax big enough to take a


$4,000 tax credit on?  If they answered appropriately, they were


then asked if they would like to watch a video on how they maybe


could reduce their energy bills without spending a dime of their


own money.  If they said yes (who wouldn’t?), then somebody was


scheduled to come over to their house with a video tape and VCR


in their hands.  The person would set up the tape (VCRs weren’t


as ubiquitous then).  The tape was a very professionally-done


video on The Alternative, with Dennis doing the pitching.  


          The program was that Conserve would sell to the customer                                                                                                                                                                


The Alternative with no money coming out of the customer’s


pockets, and the customer would just pay to Conserve all the


energy savings the system provided until the system was paid for. 


The price was $10,000 under that program, with the customer


being able to take a $4,000 tax credit on the next year’s income


tax bill.  And the company asked the customer for a $4,000 loan of


that tax credit as money down.  And if the customer had faith the


system worked, it was $8,000 cash.  Dennis ended his video pitch


with the statement of "You might say that your energy supplier is


paying for this conservation."  If the customer was interested, they


would tell the video operator, and they would set up an


appointment for a salesman to come over and get the contracts


signed.  


          Who wouldn’t go for that deal?  The fact of the matter was


that everybody went for that deal.  How on earth could the


consumer lose?  And Dennis’ salesmen had closing ratios on


selling the system that the world has never before seen.  His


salesmen had a 70% closing ratio, and many of them had never


sold anything before in their lives.  If you know the sales game and


selling to homeowners, you know those numbers are astronomical.  


          How could anybody compete with that deal?  How could the


electric companies prevent the whole Puget Sound area and its


hundreds of thousands of all electric customers from en masse


converting over to The Alternative, and ultimately costing the


electric companies many billions of dollars in lost revenues?  The


program was unstoppable on its business merits.  So, like exists in


every industry (And the bigger and more monopolistic they are,


the more you find that phenomenon, something that Eric cannot


seem to comprehend.), the electric industry had to call in its favors


and have its owned public officials stop the company another way,


ergo the media attack, phony lawsuit, Bill the Hit Man, etc.  


          The only way you could possibly call it a scam was if Dennis


would skip to South America with the loans of the tax credits, and


didn’t ever intend to deliver the systems, particularly by December


31, 1985 when the tax credits expired.


          And so every conceivable fantasy that Betsy could possibly


throw into the lawsuit was dreamed up.  Get the lawsuit sometime,


it is public record.  With all the huge media splash, every customer


who hadn’t actually put up a deposit took off for the hills.  The four


hundred people who had put up money were the ones who were


going to be the real losers if the splash succeeded in destroying


the company.  Mr. Financier had already funded a bunch of the


systems, and was going to take a million dollar bath if the


company got destroyed at that late hour.  There came from the


customers and Mr. Financier a lot of pressure to settle Betsy’s


fantasy lawsuit.  With the avalanche of public outcry in the wake of


the full page ad Dennis ran, Betsy suddenly wanted to settle the


case also.  


          But she had to find something that she could hang her hat


on, to justify the cowardly attacks and make them "legal."  And she


found it.  In a letter that she sent to Dennis one day, in the middle


of all the pandemonium, she gave the evidence that said she had


Dennis dead to rights.  Her case-making piece of evidence was a


letter she had received from a man who had watched the video in


his home of Dennis’ pitch.  The man said that he thought, after


watching the tape, that Dennis had said that the electric company


was going to mail the man a check every month if he bought the


system!  That was Betsy’s case-making piece of evidence.  She


even took a big green highlighter and highlighted that sentence


the man had written.  That was Dennis’ crime!  


          Betsy then proceeded to enumerate all the "consumer


protection" laws that she could use that evidence for to "get"


Dennis.  And here is where it begins getting surreal, and you find


out that legislators all probably went to the Orwell School of Law. 


In the laws and cases Betsy stated, she made her case clear.  The


fact that one person in the state had misunderstood the sales pitch


was a violation of the law.  And the fact that the seller had not


intended to deceive the customer was irrelevant.  The pertinent


text of that letter is reproduced in The Alternative, Exhibit 1B.  


          Dennis by that time was ready to kill with his bare hands,


and the last thing he wanted to was "settle" the phony case with


the Attorney General’s office.  But Mr. Financier and the 400


customers were going to be the victims if he didn’t.  So Dennis had


the customers take a vote whether to settle or not with the AG’s


office. The customers and Mr. Financier voted to settle, and


though it will gall Dennis to the end of his days, he settled with


Betsy and her gangster buddies.  The consent decree Dennis


signed was done under extreme duress, a form of blackmail


actually.  Betsy and her buddies took Mr. Financier and Dennis’


400 customers hostage, and unless Dennis signed the decree, the


AG would ruin them.  What a great bunch of public servants.  


          The consent decree is not reproduced in The Alternative,


but the Washington Attorney General’s office to this day is more


than happy to provide a copy of it.  Read it.  It doesn’t admit to one


thing.  Not even one.  And it says that Dennis’ company would do


the things it always had done.  But over the years that has


somehow been transformed into the hard evidence that so many


 (Mr. Deputy even tried to use it on me on the day of the raid.)


have used to help them believe that Dennis is a hardened crook.


          Mr. Financier attended the meeting where the consent


decree was signed.  His statement is reproduced in The


Alternative, Exhibit 1J.  Read that statement of the man who paid


more dearly than anybody else in Washington did (If you don’t


count the employee who was murdered by Bill the Hit Man (The


man Eric still thinks is Bill Clinton.), which I cover in great detail in


The Short Course on Dennis section.).  Then you will know that I


am not making any of this up.  


          And of course the surreal thing about it all was that the


electric companies were at the very same time pulling off a huge


swindle of the people, the kind that Eric doesn’t seem to think


possible.  Exhibit 1G in The Alternative is an example of what the


electric companies were doing at exactly the same time as Dennis


was being hatcheted in the paper.  How about this for a fraudulent


headline "We’ll pay you not to use electricity, (are we crazy?)"  I


go into the fraudulent weatherization programs the electric


companies engaged in at that time in other parts of my web page. 


The very same people who were shrieking that Dennis was fraud,


were pulling off the really big fraud.  And guess who gets


prosecuted for his crooked ways, and guess who is touted as the


best friend of the consumer?


          And when Dennis settled the case, that was far from the end


of the death blows that were being rained on the company, and I


go into it in great detail in the Short Course on Dennis section.  It


culminated with the phony bankruptcy suit, the murder of one of


Dennis employees, and the eventual theft of Dennis company, in a


move that Mr. Financier thinks was related by conspiracy to the


theft of his company a few weeks before the theft of Dennis’


company.  In retrospect, even though Dennis ended up having a


body guard because of all the death threats he received, it is


surprising that Dennis left the state alive.  There was what


appeared to be one murder attempt on Dennis during that period.


          When Betsy’s evidence files miraculously ended up


containing documents that Bill the Hit Man had stolen from the


company, she coughed them up in an instant when threatened


with an FBI probe by Dennis’ lawyer, and the items she returned to


the company are reproduced in Exhibit 1F in The Alternative.  I


could go on and on about Seattle, but I’m about to leave it for now.  


          In closing let me say that the case ended Betsy’s career


with the Attorney General’s office.  Less than two weeks after the


final confrontation with Dennis, Betsy left the Attorney General’s


office to go teach law school.  It is hard to know what exactly went


on in the smoke-filled rooms.  A part of me wishes that Betsy’s


conscience eventually got the best of her, and she left her high


profile job because she couldn’t take working for such gangsters


anymore.  But I think I am being too optimistic.  I tend to believe


that her job was to eviscerate the company, and she failed.  The


company survived her assaults, though barely, and that likely


didn’t bode well for her career.  The hatchet lady’s ax wasn’t sharp


enough. 


          And who were the "victims" of what happened in Seattle?  I


personally watched it destroy lives there.  Of course the woman


who Bill the Hit Man murdered suffered the greatest.  All the four


hundred Conserve employees lost their jobs, including me.  Of the


four hundred customers that were left after the attacks, eighty


percent of them were on the System for Savings plan, and even


though most of the systems didn’t work well, due to the many


problems which I go into in the "problems" section, they didn’t lose


one dime, none of them.  About eighty customers went for the


cash deal, and you can call many of them victims, though many of


their systems were more than limping along when the death blow


was finally delivered to the company.  And in the almost


incomprehensible way the world works, they are now "Dennis’


victims", not the electric companies’ or the Attorney General’s, or


Bill the Hit Man’s, on the tally sheets of people like Eric.  


          Mr. Financier lost millions of dollars and the company he


spent a lifetime building, and you can see how he felt about it all


by reading his statement, the statement Eric so blithely dismisses


with his pop psychology.  My wife happens to have a doctorate in


psychology, and I’m afraid she doesn’t side with Eric’s amazing


psychological theories.  In fact she is positively intrigued by what


kind of pathology may be motivating Eric.  And the biggest


financial victim of all was Dennis himself, going from a net worth of


$50 million dollars to zero in less than a year.  That wraps up the


first great attack by the government.


          So Dennis went from a net worth of $50 million to leaving


Washington with nothing but the clothes on his back, like he came


to the state a few years earlier.  He first tried going to Chicago and


rebuilding the company with a dealer of his.  By that time I had


entered the picture, and the subsequent events are covered in


great detail in the "My Experiences" section of my web page.  And


the Attorney General’s office kept up the malice, spewing out their


lies continually, even to the present day.  


          After Betsy lost her job, the next up to the plate for the


Attorney General was one Paula Selis, hatchet lady number two. 


Every place Dennis found himself in for the next few years, the


footsteps of Paula were not far behind.  And if it was possible, the


electric companies’ hysterical shrieks of what a bad man Dennis


was were made pale by the rantings of Paula Selis.  For anybody


that wanted to call her, they got both barrels of Paula’s venting


about Dennis, a man she had never met.  Paula apparently had a


bottomless well of funds to send out endless overnight packages


to anybody who called about Dennis. The package was filled with


the "dirt" on Dennis.  Too bad all of it stuck to Paula’s fingers.  


          Over the years I got to see Paula in action in print a number


of times.  To be calling her slanderous statements a bunch of


shameful lies would be putting it generously.  I have seen the


shock people have had after talking to Paula, and the absolutely


hysterical venom she would spray at Dennis.  It apparently was


breathtaking, and I have even seen an affidavit to that effect, by


somebody who was not our friend.  Paula eventually left the AG’s


office to be a close aide to the AG as he made a failed bid for the


governor’s office back in 1992.  I don’t think the people of


Washington know how close they came to having a gangster


running the state government.  It was a close election.  Dennis


eventually met Paula, and it was obvious why she had become a


trusted aide of the AG, likely not due to her astute lawyering skills,


but the fact that she was tall, blond, buxom and attractive.  I am


not surprised.   


          There was nothing in Paula’s gift packages to impress


anybody who actually knew what was going on.  But, and this is


how people like Eric are convinced, you tell a lie often enough,


and people believe it, and you may even end up believing it


yourself.  Somehow if Dennis is attacked enough times by the


power structure, it somehow turns Dennis into a crook just by their


efforts, if you believe the things Eric and his buddies have to say


on the matter.  Similar logic makes Mohandas K. Gandhi a very


bad man.


          After a fruitless month in Chicago, Dennis moved to Boston,


with another one of his dealers.  And Paula was breathing down


his neck.  She ended up talking to Robert Jackson of the


Middlesex County District Attorney’s office, in Massachusetts. 


Dennis had barely hit town when Mr. Jackson swaggered into the


office of Dennis’ dealer, throwing out threats like they were candy. 


Paula had told him there was a terrible crook in his back yard, and


like the dutiful protector of the public good he was, one of the


many threats that Mr. Jackson spewed out in his visit to the


dealer’s office was that he was going to be the man who put


Dennis Lee away for a long time.  Who were the victims in


Massachusetts?  How many people had been complaining that


Dennis had ripped them off in Massachusetts?  Well, actually,


nobody at all.  But Mr. Jackson had been tipped off by that


guardian of the public interest, Paula Selis, and he was going to


get his man.  


          Dennis has seen that one many times over the years, and


so have I.  People like Mr. Jackson have their eyes about half an


inch apart.  And when an authority figure tells them that somebody


like Dennis is a "bad man, get him!" that is all somebody like Mr.


Jackson needs to start gnashing his teeth, straining on his leash,


protecting society.  It is like sicking a rabid dog on an "intruder." 


And many people like Mr. Jackson are very sincere in their efforts. 


You just tell them who the "bad guys" are, and they will take care


of them.  There is a code of ethics there, it’s just that it is like the


Neanderthal Man code of ethics.


          Mr. Jackson tried and tried, but he wasn’t able to find


anything wrong with what Dennis was doing!  How disappointing


and frustrating that must have been.  And in one of the most telling


documents that has ever surfaced in Dennis’ story, Mr. Jackson, in


responding to Mr. Deputy, in a letter that is in The Alternative,


Exhibit 1N, which accompanied the investigative files that Jackson


sent along to McDowell, stated the following:





 "Mr. Lee was attempting to duplicate his Washington operation in


our state.  We were attempting to proceed criminally against Mr.


Lee, but, without clear cut violations of the law, we could only


proceed in the manner in which we did."





          Isn’t that neat?  They were pursuing Dennis criminally on


the amazingly honest word of Paula Selis and her boss, but


unfortunately they couldn’t find any laws he was breaking.  Dear


reader, I pray that if you ever face a prosecutor trying to throw you


in jail for no reason, I hope they just don’t make one up like Mr.


Deputy eventually did.  So those were the incredibly criminal


actions of Dennis in two states.  


          And here is also a very telling conversation a banker from


Massachusetts had with a man from the conservation department


of the BPA, the ringleader of the Washington electric companies


and Bill the Hit Man’s employer.  The banker was checking up on


us.  The man from the BPA said that all the entire conservation


department thought about for a few months was Dennis Lee.  That


was from the same organization that said "Dennis Who?" 


          And now comes the state where the long arm of the law


finally caught up with Dennis.  And that is a story I know all too


well, and is chronicled ad nauseum in the "My Experiences"


section of this web page.


        But Eric has dismissed all of it uniformly as the anecdotal


recollections of a man in denial of what a crook he has been taken


by.  What is the documentary evidence?  Here we will see a


pattern that you will find familiar.  When the rocket ship started


taking off in the autumn of 1987, I was trying to just hang on, as


we went from five people to forty employees in a couple of months. 


One of the employees we hired was a man named Clarence


Cabell, a man I have to say is one I admire.  Some in the


organization didn’t treat Clarence too well before it was all over,


something that I regretted happened when I heard of it.  It seems


that some people were suspicious of Clarence from day one, and


never got over it.  Why were they suspicious of Clarence, who


went by the name of Cab?  Well, because he had spent almost his


whole career in law enforcement, a few of them as a deputy sheriff


for Los Angeles County.


        In late December of 1987 Cab was working in our customer


service department when he got a call from a prospective kit


buyer.  They had one serious question about us, and then they


would buy the kit.  Their questions was "Why is the Better


Business Bureau in Ventura referring calls to them to Mr. Deputy


of the Ventura County Sheriff’s Department?"  Cab said he didn’t


know, and he called Mr. Deputy himself, asking if there was


anything the company was doing wrong.  Cab had been in law


enforcement himself for over ten years before he came to work for


us, so you might say that he knew what he was doing when he


called up Mr. Deputy.  If the company was doing anything wrong,


Mr. Deputy was under an obligation to tell Cab if there was


something wrong.  Otherwise Mr. Deputy was guilty of entrapment. 


Mr. Deputy asked some questions about the business, which Cab


answered, and when the conversation was over, in the words of


Cab, Mr. Deputy said "Everything you’re doing is fine.  Well, I’ll


guess I’ll stop doing your job for you now and have the Better


Business Bureau stop referring calls to me, and I’ll tell the DA’s


office that everything is fine."  


          It turned out that was the first crime that Mr. Deputy


committed, as three weeks later he led the raid against the


company, as I watched him spring out of his car at 10:00 A.M. on


January 14th, 1988 (I earlier said it was 9:00, it was actually


10:00.  My memory is not perfect all the time.).  Read Cab’s


affidavit in The Alternative, Exhibit 1P.  


          And the raid was a day that shall live in infamy, and is


already passing into legend.  In the "My Experiences" section of


this web page, I go into a fair amount of detail about the events of


that day.  And what of the legendary theft that took place when


they were "raiding" the offices?  Their theft and espionage


exercise in Mr. Researcher’s office is documented by the affidavits


of Mr. Professor, the machinist, and Mr. Researcher in Exhibits


2B, 2C and 2D in the Alternative.  And if you actually begin looking


at the affidavits, you will see that my story is actually a lot bigger


than I have been intimating on my web pages so far.  And maybe


someday I will be able to tell the story in full.  


          I have in my possession a copy of the receipt for seized


materials that had to be left in every room they searched in their


search.  I have a copy of the "official" search receipt they left


in Mr. Researcher’s office, the last office they searched in their


official search, at about midnight.  The receipt says "2 sheets


describing parts for "The Alternative" 11G #1 and 11G #2."  That


was what they took in the official search, partly because that was


about all that was left in the office after they ransacked it over


twelve hours earlier in the "unofficial search" that the machinist,


Victor Fisher and Mr. Researcher witnessed.  


          Mr. Researcher eventually testified to that in court,


heroically, after being threatened by Mr. Deputy to not show up in


court unless it was for the prosecution, or else he would be in the


cell next to Dennis’.  Now there was a crime.  In fact the whole


deal will likely go down as one of the greater acts against the well


being of humanity ever perpetrated.  Of course if we all come to an


obscure end in jail or some grim fate soon, it may not.  And I have


faint hope for this planet if it does turn out that way.  But if we


make it, it will go down with other infamous acts of corrupt officials. 


So there is how the events in Ventura began, but Eric the Skeptic


is still convinced that Dennis is one of the great cons of the


century, and those relentless attacks of the legal system seem to


be completely justified.   


          And what was the charge that justified such a raid?  It


turned out that Mr. Deputy, I’m sure with legal help somewhere


along the line, dug up one of the most obscure laws in California


legal history.  I go into that stuff in great detail in the "My


Experiences" section, once again.  The prosecution of Dennis


under those laws was the second in California history, and not one


in a thousand lawyers has ever heard of it, and in the end Dennis’


 "crime" turned out to be that he hadn’t heard about the law, and


hadn’t filed a one page form and paid a fifty dollar fee.  That sure


justified two years behind bars.  


          The first time we knew about the California law was when


thirteen armed deputies stormed the building.  How does the State


of California usually respond to the "violation" of the law that


Dennis supposedly committed?  Exhibit 2E in The Alternative


documents the typical response.  It is a letter from the California


Attorney General’s office, notifying the recipient that his business


may have violated the law in question, and to file the form


promptly, then all would be well.  Boy, that sure would have been


nice if Mr. Deputy would have said something like that, which he


was legally required to do when he talked to Cab.


          So Dennis ended up spending two years behind bars for                                                            


 "violating" a civil code by not filling out a form.  How many people


should have joined Dennis in jail for committing the "crime" that


Dennis did?  Eventually we ended up talking to the legislator who


wrote the laws in question.  The legislator estimated that perhaps


over 100,000 businesses in California could come under the


umbrella of the very nebulous and virtually untested law, as


Dennis was the second prosecution under those laws in the fifteen


year history of the laws.  


          And how many businesses had complied with the law and


filed the one page form?  See Exhibit 4F in The Alternative.  It is


an affidavit from Albert Norman Shelden, the lawyer who literally


wrote the law.  They had 250 filings under the law.  250 out of


100,000, what that does that work out to?  My calculator comes up


with the fact that one quarter of one percent of the companies that


were supposed to file, did file.  Whew! that would really fill up the


prison system if the law applied to Dennis was applied uniformly


across the whole state, and there wouldn’t be any businesses left.


          In Washington state the investigation began at the public


behest of the electric companies.  In Massachusetts it began


because they had been contacted by the Washington State


Attorney General’s office.  And what was the event that got the


investigation going in Ventura?  Well, we can read Mr. Deputy’s


version of how he got involved, if we can believe it, which I’m not


sure I do.  In Mr. Deputy’s original investigative report, he cites the


event that got him involved.  It seems that Mr. Deputy was


contacted by a Victor Burnstein who said he attended one of the


Saturday shows that we put on every week, and he was


 "bedazzled by the caffeine in the coffee, the sugar in the donuts


and the speaker’s presentation and wasn’t really sure what you


would get for the money."  See Exhibit 4C in The Alternative for


that text.  That was supposedly the event that put Mr.