This article appeared in the April 1996 issue of Phactum, the newsletter of the Philadelphia Association for Critical Thinking. It is copyright © PhACT, 1996. All rights reserved.
-- by Eric Krieg
| Note: This page in no way recommends that Gypsies be persecuted. I acknowledge that Gypsies have been unfairly mistreated in the past (and present) by many people, including Nazis. I've gotten a lot of email from irate Gypsies (most with writing difficulties). PhACT as a group does not wish to unfairly label people. |
On April 20th at the Bensalem Library, a number of us were treated to a riveting talk about criminal aspects of fortune telling and other crimes. Lou is a 30 veteran of the Philadelphia force and a member of several law enforcement groups focused on confidence crimes.
Officer Lou quickly narrowed in on just the ancient race of people known as Gypsies. He said they constitute the majority of fortune tellers and use a rather standard con to take advantage of people who have fallen on tough times or are lonely. He reported that this group of uncounted people are not merely 'banjo playing buffoons but people raised from a young age believing that it is their god-given mission in life to cheat the rest of us. Although it didn't sound politically correct, he went on to say that unlike us they don't obey laws, or attend more than 7 years of school. He reported they are inbred, loaded with money, constantly move, frequently jump bail, attempt to bribe their way out of jail (some times with phony bonds) and are involved in far more crime than the mafia. He said their are many different clans of them, for example the Tinkerers (aka travelers) come from the northern UK and specialize in repair scams (this reporter had some of them try to rip him off in a massive driveway repair scam in Upper Dublin). Although Lou has put many gypsies behind bars including a Gypsy policeman who tried to bribe him, he said it is very difficult to hold them responsible for their crimes because: they have thousands of years of practice, change names, move around, hide behind the practice of religion, and speak a language only they know. Lou says they try to rationalize their crimes since they don't use violence - however the deep hurt that people go through is very severe. Some people caught in faith healer scams have ended up losing both their vision and tens of thousands of dollars.
Their fortune telling scam mostly takes advantage of educated women and involves the following deceptions: at an initial meeting they cold read and convince the victim that 'evil' is following them - but could be stopped with help from the gypsy: Simple slight of hand tricks (making an egg appear to transmogrify, making water appear to boil etc.) enhance the gypsies appearance of power. A quick swap of a donated envelope of money with a fake burned the burning of "hundred dollar candles" asking that a large sum of money be buried somewhere.
Apparently, in NJ, all they need are pictures of Jesus everywhere and the law won't touch them; but in PA only fraud be need proven to convict faith healers, fortune tellers, phrenologists, graphologists, or astrologers. Officer Lou sounds like a seasoned skeptic, he's remarked to alleged psychics, "if you're are a psychic, why didn't you know I was coming to arrest you"
| Mr. Krieg, I appreciate the fact you would like to remain open minded on the issue of the Gypsies. As a former police detective in __________ _______ and an Insurance Fraud investigator for the past several years, I passed that stage years ago. The Gypsy people believe it is there divine right to commit what they consider to be petty property crimes against the "Gadjo". (Any non Gypsie) I have conducted hundreds of Interviews and Interrogations involving gypsies. Young, old, male and female. In general they are polite and surprisingly candid about their activities. It is no different from your basic religious convictions, or lack of. They just believe that is the way things are. I now deal with them in the area of Insurance Fraud. There is nothing a gypsy will not do in order to obtain a large settlement from and insurance company. I have seen adults pull the teeth out of small children prior to staging an accident in a store or office building. All part of the scam. There is a great deal of information concerning Gypsies, both on the net and in print. Just one last thought. You would be a prime target for a gypsy. Your open minded, and they are very good. They have years of practice under sometime harsh conditions. (Gypsies were persecuted in large numbers by the nazis in WW2) All the gypsies I have dealt with are very slick and street smart. They can pass lie detectors, because they don't believe what they do is wrong. If you decide to investigate any gypsies "up close" hold onto your wallet. Good Luck. I would be glad to write about some of my investigations when I have more time. I didn't intend to state "All" gypsies are thiefs. I know there is a gypsy Police Officer that lectures on the topic. I believe he is with the Kansas City KS, police department, but don't hold me to that. |
Speaking of open-minded skepticism, I personally don't know for sure one way or the other if the majority of gypsy people are dishonest. I'd like to explore the question farther. The book "the secrets of Gypsy fortune telling may offer more thoughts. I checked out gypsy web sites at http://metro.turnpike.net/R/rtracy/romright/rrwmain.html/ and http://www.cybergypsy.com/AGRI.html. One of the sites responded to my inquirers saying that there are many wrong maligning stereotypes of other people groups and went on to request that we pray for the persecuted gypsy people.
| I am a gypsy .. i'm not a very honest gypsy but i try...but then again your not a very honest person either ...for that mater ..very few of the pepole in he world are honest....i lie ...i cheat....some times i steal....i some times smoke pot.....not because im a gypsy..... but because im human...... there are many ...blacks.....jews....mexicans...ect. that do the same things that i do.... dose that make them gypsys???????? i think not....we all live to die ...we all do wrong... and we all do right..... i hope you under stand what im trying so say ....my point is this .........im not saying that gypsys are inosent.....the ones that do wrong are wrong......but don't blame the ones that had nothing to do with the other gypsys wrong doings ..... treat us like human being not animals ..........we should all try to under stand each other......all we want as gypsys is to live with out being looked at as teiffs ...when pepole hear the word gypsy ...the first thing they think is .....hide your wallet & hold on to your kids there's a gypsy over ther............when the truth is we don't need your wallets or your kids ....any one who knows a real gypsy know that we have enough money and too many kids of are own.......... all we want is just a little respect......we bleed lust like you.... we hunger just like you.......we sleep just like you ...... and you know why????......because we are human just like you........... I THANK YOU FOR LISTENING |
|
I have read your article on the (Roma) gypsys.And have found everything
i have read to be ledgens,wives tales ,and fables.FORTUNE TELLERS? How
about getting the psychic hotlines that for e.g DION WARWICK has,off the
air.Or is that ok because shes not a gypsy? ORGANIZED CRIME? Only as
much as the govenment is.Or was it ok for "Kennedy" to be involved with
the mafia, and still be president.(and Frank Sinatra). As far as i knew
racism was against the law. I bet you wouldnt put your name next to an
article like that about the Jews or the BLacks ect. and why? Because
that my friend would be racism! So why do you think you have the right
to condemn us for things you have made up or here say. Before you write
an article don't you research it first? Obviously not!One last thing
before i go. Do I look like Im illiterate? No,just another rumor.
you still don't explain why the gypsys are the only people being disputed with about fortune telling but its ok for non gypsys to do so.further more,not all gypsys are into illegal activities,a very high percentage are settled down with very reputable businesses and are very much christians with their children going ALL the way through school.includeing college.Many are lawyers,doctors, teachers,and ect. you shouldnt be so stereotypical about a race you havent even begun to know. |
Eric's response: Eddie, we skeptics do go after phony psychic. And no racism is not against the law (still a bad thing). I don't condemn you all, I just agree with the officer that there are a lot of bad gypsies out there. I don't know the percentages. I would very much like to locate a tribe of legitimate legal law abiding gypsy's willing to have someone from the press check tax records and do a criminal back ground check on spot people to provide verification. As I've told Eddie, I simply don't know if there are significant size groups of gypsies who are all educated, paying taxes and all that. I'd like to help get an independent media group to investigate.
| Has anyone in Los Angeles or anywhere in the western U.S. encountered a young woman posing as a psychic with the initials E.A.? We may be able to help each other. |
- a response may be forwarded through email
|
Dear Eric
I read with sadness your article about Gypsies. I was sorry that you were not more sceptical of Officer Lou's racist claims and misrepresentations. I have lived and worked with Gypsy people in Britain and the Czech Republic for several years. I have never had any of them perpetrate a 'fortune telling scam' or other con on me. Even if I had, it would hardly justify condemning the whole group. If you want to learn more about Roma, you might want to read one of the articles I have had published about them, at: http://www.socresonline.org.uk/socresonline/4/3/bancroft.html or visit the European Roma Rights Centre at http://www.errc.org/ which is run by a number of journalists and lawyers documenting anti-Gypsy violence in Europe. I am a sceptic: but remember that it is important to be sceptical of statements which condemn whole groups of people as 'criminal'. The only criminal actions I have seen when with a group of Gypsies was in the Czech Republic, when two of my Gypsy friends were attacked by a gang of neo-Nazis. . . . . You may certainly post my message on your webpage, thanks. Since the URL to my article was broken, I have posted a copy on my homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/1235/publications/sro.html I hope it works this time! I know you didn't say you thought that all Gypsies were criminal. However, the police officer you quoted certainly thought so, and it was more the fact that you didn't challenge his claims that I was somewhat upset about. Regarding what percentage of Gypsies are law abiding I think perhaps you are approaching the question from the wrong angle. Surely a basic aspect of sceptical thinking, and indeed a basic principle of a free society, is that individuals are to be judged on their (individual) merits. The fact that individual A is a criminal is due to his or her individual decisions and actions, not because he or she happens to be a Gypsy, or indeed a Jew or a Scot like myself. By all means, condemn fortune-telling and astrology and televangilism for the cons that they are. But bear in mind that they are cons perpetrated by greedy and immoral individuals, rather than ethnic minorities. As to what jobs and education the Gypsies I worked with had, the answer is, of course, a whole variety, as with any group of people. Of the British Gypsies I know, some had degrees and PhDs and were college lecturers and teachers; some were on social security. In the Czech Republic things were slightly different: most Roma (Gypsies) are unemployed. This is not out of choice, however, but is due to racial discrimination, which is endemic there. On the other hand, I met many Roma lawyers, professors and doctors. Anyway, thanks for replying. Yours, Angus |
|
Dear Eric,
I would like to speak about the thousands of travelers that do not steal, are settled and keep their kids in school. Many of us Have houses and legitimate business. Our children are taken out of school at around 13 or 14 and put into home school (legally) because we don't want the to mingle with the non travelers. it has been this way since the beginning of time. First because we were so persecuted it was easier to stay apart then to explain and now, well its been breed into us. I have heard everything from stealing babies (which is in its self ridiculous, we have more than enough of our own kids) to actually being witches. In my opinion anyone who goes to a psychic needs psychiatric help its no different from betting on the street card sharks. People who don't know us are scared and so they make up things to make them selves feel better. People who do know us usually love us! I understand how we all get stereotyped as one in the same but it isn't right. All blacks aren't crack heads and all Italians aren't Mafia. We do need a voice to speak for us all but most are scared of the government for what they have done to us in the past. It would be nice for 20/20 or 60 minutes to pick up a story on gypsies about the latest revival we have had and the hundreds of souls that has been won for Jesus, or the homeless ministries we do or the prison ministry going on. instead all you hear about is the bad stuff.Looping,Married at 13 and robbing people. Most travelers don't do any of that. If we were black Al Sharpton would be suing half the government. It makes me sick to my stomach to be so proud of what the Good Lord has made me yet so afraid to tell anyone. There are travelers out there who rip people off and lie and steal, But not all are travelers. 1/3 of America is under educated we(america) has the highest population of drop outs and illiterates.Just because one cant spell or read Shakespeare doesn't make them dumb. I know many travelers that have graduated and you know what they do for a living? paint house and pave. Because that's what they want to do. The Traveler people are a beautiful and diverse group of people.We are more than liars,thieves,and fortune tellers! Tom Jones, Yule Brenner,and Michael Cain I have been told are gypsies. God bless you |
| I read your article on gypsy I found it interesting to say the least but yet disturbing You stated in the first part that you have received emails from some who are upset and made it a point that most of them can not spell Is it any wonder why they would be upset you are type casting all of them into one grouping you would not dare do this to black people saying they are all gang bangers and lazy now would you no that's called racism You would not say that all of the mexicans are the same they are drunks and over here illegal no that's considered racism but yet you seem to group all gypsy in the same group this is not racists Just because there are some who steale lie and cheat there way through life does not mean a group of people as a whole are the same am I a gypsy no I am not I am a scotch traveler who can't stand it no more seeing my way of life being told is wrong you stated in the end part that you would like to find a large group of gypsies to prove to you that they are law abiding people why would they have to prove anything to you You have done nothing to make them trust you I my self am law abiding I hold a job down and my dad has been state license in the state of california for over 30 years we pay our taxes and mind our own business we vote we shop we eat just like everyone else we may do things a little different then others but we are always there for each other this is the true way of a Gypsy or a Traveler never let them know who you are just go to work each day and thank God for what he has given us try not to draw any attion to who or what you are if you have any question's pleaSe feel free to email me back I will answer any and all to debunk the myths that most people have of my people thank you for you time |
|
I agree because my husband and I were
just discussing the whole"my ancestors were slaves" thing.And you are right
We can keep defending our selves and actions or we can do something to let
the rest of the world see us for what we are! I'm not sure how we would go
about this but I am sure most travelers would turn tail and run the other way
if a reporter tried to interview them.If we,as a group of people want
society to see us as no different than the rest of the world then yes WE must
change their minds.But it is very hard to change the way someone thinks,A
leopard cant change its spots,type of thing.If you were going to get your car
from a parking garage late at night and noticed 3 black men in leather coats
with stocking caps walking towards you,What would be your first thought?
Honestly? Mine would be Oh My God I'm gonna be robbed! It's not right but it
happens and my point is this...We are stereotyped no matter what we
do.Because of all the bad publicity we have had in the past.No one wants to
here about how nice we are.How law abiding we are,How much we pay in taxes!
Because you say Gypsy and the world thinks hide your kids and money.You asked
me to give you some input on what we are like and I have thought about it and
here is what i want to tell you...Every group has it's bad guys and we are no
different.Yes I know of people I trust as far as I could throw them.There are
people I don't allow my kids to associate with because of what they do or how
they behave.Some people are proud of the fact they can rip someone off or
take their last dollar.Personally I couldnt sleep at night Knowing I did that
to someone And I don't respect anyone who does.have you ever went into a store
and bought something and the cashier gave you to much change back?did you
return it or think to yourself it was his/her fault for not paying attention?
Well that is the same thing .We think to ourselves"the dumb reff,arent we
smart" No we was dishonest.We are all different from the next person except
for a few things...We can all speak the same language and for the most part
have the same basic instinct, Dont let your guard down because someone will
be there to stab you in the back.Here is what I can tell you about My
people...most of our ancestors are from Great Britian They were horse
traders(sometimes they stole these horse) and tinkers.I read a book once that
said the gypsies made the finest pots,pans and ale tankards in england.They
were also the major part of the circus,The cirque de sole is French
gypsies.They were also stage performers.In John Barrymoores Biography he
credits his gypsy grandmother for all the familys talent. Ok sorry I lost my
train of thought.Most travelers beleive they are better than anyone even
other travelers.Our beliefs are this...we don't live in sin,we don't allow our
kids to date,they must be chaperoned.We try to keep them from drugs and
alcohol like every other parent.we don't jump brooms,we get married by a
preist or judge or minister.most would die than to bring shame upon their
family.You have to be careful of how you dress,how you act and what you say,
good news travels fast and bad news even faster in our people.If you are not
clean no one will come in your house to have a cup of tea if you are loose no
one will go any where with you for fear of guilt by association and so your
daughters are targets for dirty looks and crude comments.For men If your lazy
your sons will be labled lazy, This is how it is in our people.Any reports
you here from non travelers you get the old "they are so clean its scarry"
well yes I know some women that are so clean it scares me but is it a crime?
Its something to proud of.we don't wash our hands,hair or kids in our kitchen
sinks only food and dishes,the italians are the same way they have one sink
for food washing and another for the dishes.Some travelers don't cook in their
homes or sleep in their beds or sit on their sofas.(to me this is not a home
but a museum)Most are Christians or catholics. the Irish,English and scotch
are basicly the same.travelers and Roms are different.The sterotype of gypsys
started with the roms,Fortune tellers,Dark hair,Gold bracelets.Travelers live
in houses,apartments,trailers and motels.most paint or pave.I am not
superstitous but I remember My grandma saying don't sweep under a single
womans feet or she will be an old maid.after you sweep your floor put your
broom outside(I'm not sure why we do this)Dont call babies angles,God will
take them back.We have an unbeleivable will to keep ourselves seperate from
the non travelers.It is hard for a non traveler to marry into our people and
not become like us it is nearly impossible,either your a traveler or not
there is no gray area.Travelers can spot another traveler in a crowd even if
they have never met, its like a built in radar and most of the time we can
tell if they are scotch,english,irish or rom before they speak,just buy how
they dress or what they drive or live in.We are our worst enemys and yet if a
family falls on hard times or their kid is sick we pull together and take up
a collection for that family,we wouldnt see one of our own do without
something and at the same time we want bigger and better than the next
person.We are suspicious of everyone even our own people.We can charm the
skin off a snake,We don't talk about ourselves to non travelers but we are
great listeners ,this is where the palmreading comes in handy...Non travelers
will tell people,perfect strangers their whole life story(even if you don't
want to hear it) My grandmother was a palmist and she said you can talk to
them (clients) for five minutes and know exactly what they want to hear.She
used to say she was selling peice of mind.She died in the same town she had
lived in for 40 years and when she died the whole town,mostly her customers
came to the funeral.She was Rom and she could talk to her sister all day in
Rom,never uttering a single english word.Roms have the largest vocabulary of
all they can say the lords prayer and count in Rom.they have several words
for one english word incase they want to make sure no one else understands
them and in traveler language one word can mean several things depending on
how you phrase it or in what tone you use it.Irish,English,Scotch and rom
each have their own vocabulary.I have met french,swedish and Russian Roms and
although they cant speak english they all speak the same language.That is
pretty amazing! Yes we are strange,But only to non travelers.Every night
before I go to sleep I ask God to forgive me for my sins and Thank him for
making me a traveler,I wouldnt want it any other way.
I hope I have help you,if only a little bit. God Bless you _______ |
|
Ah, my good friend. I am a Gypsy also. Many of your claims are true, there are those of us who lie, cheat, and steal. But i do assure you
there are others also. African Americans, Spanish Americans, Asian Americans, and yes, the biggest of all, Caucasians. Let's take a look
at some claims.
Fortune Tellers: As in other letters, Dion, and even Ms. Cleo, are they actual psychics? i think not. But, because they aren't gypsy..or because they have a lincense...or even because they might have friends in higher places, it's perfectly legal for them. Okay no problem, next subject. Gypsys had a difficult time spelling: Well sir, there are many people who cannot read, and worst of all, they're non-gypsys. I pray that God gives these people an eaiser life and helps them. Education is a big problem in the world. Many funds have been raised to support it in third-world countries. But, still not enough is done. However, please try to find a problem with my grammer and/or spelling. NOTE: I am 14 years of age, a new dawn is among the roma, now children are using the PC like never before. I have learned HTML, Java Script, Frames, and Tables. All easy to me. And there are others just like me, many in fact, who have a proper education. I am not saying you are wrong in any shape, way, or form. But we need to acknowledge that the Gypsy people are not the only criminals in the world. As said by the others, many of them, including my family, own a home, run a business, attend church weekly (Also run and work for them) and lead a normal life. I am a servent for Chicago Christian Center. Can we blame every caucasian because of Charles Manson?. Or every germen man because of Hitler and his death camps?. No, we cannot. Can we blame every Jewish person because at that time, they crucified Christ? certinly not!. Nor can we blame each & every Gypsy, because one walked up to a door and preformed an illegal task. A. Martin |
| Our group has been horribly persecuted in the past and many police in different countries treat us badly today. | I agree such things have been done and I am against oppression. |
| Why worry about us when there are such worse crimes going on. | I think it is good to exposed any wrong doing. |
| Are you perfect? | Absolutely not. Evil would go unchallenged if we waited for perfect people to confront it. |
| We don't trust your idea of having the media see if there are any honest Gypsy clans. | If you are unwilling to take measures to change misunderstandings then don't complain. |
| Would you be willing to follow your own idea to be investigated? | When I just signed on to become a Boy Scout leader, they did a criminal background check on me to make sure I'm safe. When I got life insurance, they did a drug test on me. When I last donated blood, they checked to see if I have AIDs. If I ever run for a government elected office, my past tax returns, my history, friends and job history would all be closely scrutinized. |
Fighting unfair stereotypes of Gypsies
CSICOP / Skeptical Briefs / March 1999 / Investigative Files / The Gypsies' "Great Trick"
Religion And Culture of the Roma
Gypsies: Tramps and Thieves? -a pro report from Bulgaria
The Patrin Web Journal - Romani (Gypsy) Beliefs - Religion and Superstitions
Sometime, I would actually like to investigate a group of Roma people to be able to publically document if a large group of them is perfectly law abiding. Please let me know if you have additional ideas on this question.
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